Oil Question

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Hello Everyone has been a long time since I have been on the site. I have a question that I already know the answer to, but I am really trying to get an "opinion" so what better place to go?

I drive a car that requires VW 502 Certification. As I have learned from this site many years ago is as long as the Oil you use has the Spec in which your car needs then it really doesn't matter if you use Brand "A" or Brand "B".

So I currently use Castrol 0w40 which I can buy at WallyWorld for $25 for 5 qts. I can also buy M1 0w40 at the same place for $22 for 5 quts. They also sell PU Euro 5w40 for $9.97 a qt. So Basically the PU Euro would be about double the price vs the other 2 mentioned oils.

So my question is, Is PU a gimmick or is the "Pure Base" worth paying 2x's more for? I am not a cheapskate with my car, I just buy what meets the spec, but if folks here know for a fact that PU is liquid gold and is worth it? Then I would like to hear those opinions.

I have read on the Pennzoil website where the claim of up to 25% cleaner well everything in the motor was for the 5w30 oil and says in very small print at the bottom "does not refer to Euro oils". So if that is the case, is it a Gimmick? Yes or No.

Thoughts? Rants and Raves Welcomed....

Thanks for your time...


Jeff
 
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AFAIK the mention of 'euro' refers to the claim of their own ultra oil line not including their own "ultra euro" in that claim as the euro oils are typically lower saps thus lower detergency.
 
I do notice that the M1 has a higher ASH content than Castrol and PU. Not sure if that is a good or a bad thing?

I had no problem using the M1 I used it for the first few oil changes had an oil analysis done, after 5K miles on the oil it had pleanty of life in it, so I know it does well in the motor. Have not done a UOA while using the Castrol yet. I have used the Castrol for about 20k miles now. I just have noticed M1 seems to be dropping in price so was thinking of going back to it, then I saw the PU on the shelf, that was a first...

Jeff
 
M1 pretty much owns the 0w40 niche right now. Castrol may be the next go-to in that arena, it looks pretty good and carries all the right certifications.

"Ash" means metallic anti-wear additives... if you have an oil-burner, its an issue because thats what degrades catalysts and can also form combustion chamber deposits (if its a REALLY heavy oil burner). Otherwise, not so much.
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
They also sell PU Euro 5w40 for $9.97 a qt.

PU Euro? That's old stock. They rebranded it to PP Euro a few years ago.

No, it's not liquid gold.
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I do notice that the M1 has a higher ASH content than Castrol and PU. Not sure if that is a good or a bad thing?

I had no problem using the M1 I used it for the first few oil changes had an oil analysis done, after 5K miles on the oil it had pleanty of life in it, so I know it does well in the motor. Have not done a UOA while using the Castrol yet. I have used the Castrol for about 20k miles now. I just have noticed M1 seems to be dropping in price so was thinking of going back to it, then I saw the PU on the shelf, that was a first...

Jeff

He is live!!!!! lol
I would stick to Castrol 0W40.
Apparently GTL has better NOACK, but Pennzoil nor Mobil1 are posting number. Pennzoil posted number for their Ultra 5W40 which was 6.8% and HTHS of 3.8cp. But, since they rebranded (again) to Platinum they are not posting NOACK and HTHS> As far as I heard, it is 3.6cp which is in my pinion: whatever.
I do not know what to tell you about M1. HTHS is 3.6, but TBN is 12.3. Why they hiked up TBN I have no clue. I know that old version had issues with TBN retention. Also, there is a push for next year for EPA to require 10ppm sulfur in gasoline, so that high TBN is bit strange.
Also, Mobil1 does not meet BMW LL-01 anymore. That is very strange to say the least. We know BMW LL-01 is now one of the hardest specs. to meet, but both Castrol and Pennzoil carry it as well as other oils.
And in 2.0T, always lower ash oil.
 
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Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
M1 pretty much owns the 0w40 niche right now. Castrol may be the next go-to in that arena, it looks pretty good and carries all the right certifications.

"Ash" means metallic anti-wear additives... if you have an oil-burner, its an issue because thats what degrades catalysts and can also form combustion chamber deposits (if its a REALLY heavy oil burner). Otherwise, not so much.

Nope, M1 does not carry BMW LL-01 anymore!
In my vocabulary that is BIG deal, regardless what drove M1 to skip that.
So not sure how they "own" 0W40 market.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
M1 pretty much owns the 0w40 niche right now. Castrol may be the next go-to in that arena, it looks pretty good and carries all the right certifications.

"Ash" means metallic anti-wear additives... if you have an oil-burner, its an issue because thats what degrades catalysts and can also form combustion chamber deposits (if its a REALLY heavy oil burner). Otherwise, not so much.

Nope, M1 does not carry BMW LL-01 anymore!
In my vocabulary that is BIG deal, regardless what drove M1 to skip that.
So not sure how they "own" 0W40 market.


Like I said, the balance may be tipping in Castrol's favor... but as of right now, M1 has the proven track record and the market share as a result of the track record. THAT's how it "owns" the market.

The deal with BMW LL-01 is interesting, and one wonders why M1 dropped it. In turn that begs the question of whether its about to be superceded and they're gearing up to pass the next spec rather than waste money on testing their new oil against a lame duck spec, or if for some reason their new formula isn't quite as strong against some arcane component of LL-01. Its hard to believe that switching to GTL base stock would actually be a downgrade in any way, but who knows?

Ultimately the whole matter about LL-01 is irrelevant except for people who own BMWs still under warranty or people who just want to have a check-box by that spec.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
M1 pretty much owns the 0w40 niche right now. Castrol may be the next go-to in that arena, it looks pretty good and carries all the right certifications.

"Ash" means metallic anti-wear additives... if you have an oil-burner, its an issue because thats what degrades catalysts and can also form combustion chamber deposits (if its a REALLY heavy oil burner). Otherwise, not so much.

Nope, M1 does not carry BMW LL-01 anymore!
In my vocabulary that is BIG deal, regardless what drove M1 to skip that.
So not sure how they "own" 0W40 market.


Like I said, the balance may be tipping in Castrol's favor... but as of right now, M1 has the proven track record and the market share as a result of the track record. THAT's how it "owns" the market.

The deal with BMW LL-01 is interesting, and one wonders why M1 dropped it. In turn that begs the question of whether its about to be superceded and they're gearing up to pass the next spec rather than waste money on testing their new oil against a lame duck spec, or if for some reason their new formula isn't quite as strong against some arcane component of LL-01. Its hard to believe that switching to GTL base stock would actually be a downgrade in any way, but who knows?

Ultimately the whole matter about LL-01 is irrelevant except for people who own BMWs still under warranty or people who just want to have a check-box by that spec.

Why Castrol 0W40 does not have proven record? Do not get it. Both oils are top notch, though Castrol 0W30 for example owned Euro market here considering status it had. Castrol 0W40 is just new reiteration.
As for LL-01, it is staying there. It is updated including N20 engine. So, no it is not outdated and by some people here in the forum who are insiders in oil industry, it is apparently toughest spec. to meet now.
So I find a problem in the fact that Mobil1 0W40 is not having this spec. Think about how many BMW's are on the road People like to use what is recommended and LL-01 exists for a reason, so people do not use ANY synthetic oil.
As for spending on getting specification. I worked on testing of one oil. Getting specification costs average American monthly salary. Testing, developing oil is another thing, but getting approval is cheap!
 
EDYVW how are you doing my friend, been too long
smile.gif


I wonder if M1 pulled the LL-01 due to BMW switching to Penzoil as "Their" brand? Though it was Castrol prior so that wouldn't make sense either?

I am fine with the Castrol, I just never saw the PU It is the newest version but we all know it as PU the acronyms for Penzoil now are getting ridiculous.

I think the lower ASH Castrol 0w40 would also be better for the 2.0T TSI engine.

I still dont understand though why Penzoil is so difficult to find in this Euro weight over the counter anyway? I mean seeing it at Wallyworld in this weight? Is the 1st time in 3 yrs that I have seen it. Dont get it. Such lack of availability.

I will stick with the Castrol, I have nothing bad to say about it, just curious what people thought of the PU or PPU Euro or whatever the heck its called today.

Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
EDYVW how are you doing my friend, been too long
smile.gif


I wonder if M1 pulled the LL-01 due to BMW switching to Penzoil as "Their" brand? Though it was Castrol prior so that wouldn't make sense either?

I am fine with the Castrol, I just never saw the PU It is the newest version but we all know it as PU the acronyms for Penzoil now are getting ridiculous.

I think the lower ASH Castrol 0w40 would also be better for the 2.0T TSI engine.

I still dont understand though why Penzoil is so difficult to find in this Euro weight over the counter anyway? I mean seeing it at Wallyworld in this weight? Is the 1st time in 3 yrs that I have seen it. Dont get it. Such lack of availability.

I will stick with the Castrol, I have nothing bad to say about it, just curious what people thought of the PU or PPU Euro or whatever the heck its called today.

Jeff

Well, Mobil1 was never BMW brand. It was FINA, then TOTAL/FINA, then Castrol, now it is Shell.
I am seriously puzzled that company like Mobil1 does not have on the U.S. market right now oil that meets LL-01 specification! Also puzzling is that on the EU market they still kept old M1 0W40 version. Other companies have LL-01 approval, from Castrol to Pentosin, Liqui Moly, Ravenol, and numerous other oils.
As for Pennzoil, I do not know. Their marketing is just as puzzling as LL-01 in Mobil1 case.
In Tiguan I am sticking to Castrol 0W40, in BMW I am using M1 5W30 ESP, as I think in that category that is best oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
PP euro 5w40 has Noack of 6.2%.

Is that the current spec? I haven't been able to find a pds more current than 2013
 
Edyvw

I can find liquid moly 5w40 fairly inexpensive on Amazon I was considering trying that or the pentosin 5w40 what are your thoughts on that?

Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Edyvw

I can find liquid moly 5w40 fairly inexpensive on Amazon I was considering trying that or the pentosin 5w40 what are your thoughts on that?

Jeff

I tried Pentosin 5W40 once. I felt bit of lag. Not worth it. I was looking it also for BMW since it meets LL-04, but ESp I think is better option.
LM? Not worth it. It is an average oil. Someone posted here topic having BMW consuming LM excessively.
I used sometimes LM while I was living in Bosnia, all cars always consumed LM.
I think even if Castrol 0W40 is more expensive then Pentosin and LM, it is still better. With that price in Wal Mart, it is unbeatable, or M1 for that matter.
Also, Pentosin and LM are typical HC oils.
If you want to go with Mid-SAPS oil I would rather go with Amsoil 5W40 that has BMW LL-04 and MB 229.51 and Porsche A40 approvals. Does not have VW 505.01 and 502.00, but they are not that stringent anyway.
 
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Thanks for your input EDYVW
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Its just so convenient to use the Castrol 0W40 since I can buy it at Wallyworld for $25. M1 0W40 is on sale now for $22 but I still take the Castrol. I have no issues over it and it meets the spec my car requires.

The Thing is with Wallyworld is thye change up things, last time I went there they had no castrol 0W40 anywhere and I didn't even see a sign for it. I can still get it online through wallyworld for the same price and they ship to the store close to my house for free. They just change things up allot. As I said, now they had Penzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 on the shelf which I have never seen before, but only in qts. $9.97 a qt vs. $5 per qt for the Castrol
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It is a no brainer there.

Is Penzoils Sales Gimmick of the "Pure Base" technology just that? A Gimmick? Or is it actually "Better" I use that word loosely. It reminds me of Royal Purple and their "Synerlec" additive and the smoke and mirrors around that stuff. Is "Pure Base" in that group? Smoke and Mirrors?

Jeff
 
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