Friction Reducer

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I was watching CAR FIX on Velocity channel this AM. They suggested a product called FRICTION REDUCER for gas and diesel engines. I think I will call BEE. S.-AKA-COW PATTIES on this one. Especially the price! Unless someone can convinces me otherwise........

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Originally Posted By: Inspecktor
I like these car programs, but watching the junk they have to shill sure is irritating.
+1 One of them was humping "Zmax" for everything recently. You could almost see the smirk on the "personality's face. He kept talking about those "small molecules".
 
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According to the Amazon "reviews", people are getting hellaciously better fuel economy and their engines are so smooth they cant even tell they are running.
 
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Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Inspecktor
I like these car programs, but watching the junk they have to shill sure is irritating.
+1 One of them was humping "Zmax" for everything recently. You could almost see the smirk on the "personality's face. He kept talking about those "small molecules".


Those sell anything fanatics will hump anything!

I just looked at this new snake oil and it seems the same humpers are moving up in the world to the tired trucker market:

Love’s retail roll out brings Hot Shot’s Secret products to diesel drivers nationwide
Today Lubrication Specialties Inc. announced that its premier products, Hot Shot’s Secret Stiction Eliminator and Diesel Extreme are now available at more than 260 Love’s Travel Stops across the country. This retail roll out marks continued and widespread growth for the parent company.

“Love’s has been at the forefront of the travel center industry for a half a century. We are always searching for new ways to serve our drivers, so we’re very pleased to have innovative products like Hot Shot’s Secret on our shelves,” said Kyle Sloan, Love’s Category Manager.



PS: I think after reading that web site extract, I will stick with Liqui Moly's Ceratec oil additive!
 
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My 2005 chevy avalanche had a product called 'friction free' added to the crankcase at every OC for 160,000 miles. I asked the shop owner, after seeing it on all the service receipts, what the additive was. He said basically it was good stuff and he had recommended it to his customers for years. It apparently done no harm because it now has 180,000 miles and runs great. I've never put the 'friction free' in since I have owned it, but it sounds like it might be similar to the friction reducer and Mos2. IDK
 
You should try HotShots products before making them the Devil.
The lead Chemist was working for International Trucks helping them solve some things with their engines.

There are whack of good reviews everywhere.
 
Hot Shots has been around a while, and is popular in the PowerStroke community to address injector stiction in the 6.0. Some have had glowing results, others have not. I tried it, and really saw no difference, which I contribute to the 6.0 just runs better on lighter oils. I had good results switching to a 10w30.
All that being said, I do think Hot Shots has legit products, with research to back up their offerings.
 
Hey beanoil, if any of our products failed to meet your expectations or fix your issue, please call 1-800-341-6516 with your receipt and they'd be more than happy to issue you a refund.

This thread is a few weeks old so I apologize for the email notification bump, but if you guys have any questions about Friction Reducer or any other product I'd be more than happy to answer them.

We are one of the few additive companies that create and blend their own additives in house, bottle them ourselves, package, and constantly test internally, with fleets and end users, as well as 3rd party tests to ensure our products can't be beat. As far as product prices go, these are the best additives available on the market. We develop them with strength and effectiveness in mind, not cost of product, which does come with revenue disadvantages, but at the end of the day we clock out knowing our product is the most powerful on the shelf.

More aligned with this thread, I added the Friction Reducer into the engine of my 1994 Mazda Miata (5w30 Regular HM), the 168k mile winter beater. With already cold temperatures outside, I didnt see any operating temp decrease, but the FR did "cling" to the higher parts in the engine, with a drastic decrease in my worn out HLA chatter on cold startup. I kept all my fuel receipts and logged mileage, but with the temps all over (midwest guys remember this winter) and the new location we moved into in January, which included more highway commuting, the best I could attribute is a 1-1.5 mpg bump in my combined average. Not enough to make me rich, but enough to add almost 20 miles onto my tank range. That's my personal experience with FR, my worn out Mazda/Ford BP engine is more quiet than it's ever been and the reduction in cold start noise helps me sleep better at night.

With a few ounces left over I added some to my father's 2009 Toyota Corolla S that suffers from the common TSB that Toyota calls "Brief Engine Knock/Rattle Noise at Cold Startup". It is a mechanical issue with the Camshaft Timing Gear Assembly, so it didnt make any noticeable difference. When he bought the car we would average 37mpg, when I added it he was getting 34.5, his in-car gauge and records showed 36.6.

I'm working on posting a Friction Reducer study using data taken from a 2006 Saab 2.0L turbo with 125,000 miles on the odometer, they tested Friction Reducer in the transmission on the dynamometer. The test was done at Precision Machine in Edison, Ohio. I'll give you guys a link when I get it posted on our site.

Thank you for your time. Hope this information helped.
 
spencerhss, I just started using hotshots friction reducer I never seen a product that actually give me 3-4mpg increase in all three of my vehicles!! great product!!
 
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The metal in a machine is nearly always positively charged while Friction Reducer is negatively charged. Attachment of a thin layer of Friction Reducer to all metals is natural and not dependent upon temperature, pressure or anything else; except that there must be oil circulation to establish a layer of Friction Reducer on the metal. Friction Reducer has absolutely no effect on the metal itself.


Most esters are polar as most of the BITOG members know.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/esters-in-synthetic-lubricants/

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It is not an extreme pressure agent, so it will not corrode the surface of metal as do chlorinated or sulfurized oil additives.


Ever heard of buffers and metal deactivators/inhibitors?

If TMP decanoate is not an EP agent then why not just state that it acts as an Anti-Wear (AW) agent? If not an AW agent then just say it is a friction reducer. More unnecessary verbiage and fluff.

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It is not a polymer additive so it will not artificially thicken oil.


Not all polymers or polymer esters will thicken an oil. Ever heard of the Kentjenlube polymers?

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Friction Reducer is a pure ester, which has much greater lubricity than oil. It is so effective in reducing friction because it creates a carpet of ester on all of the metal surfaces, preventing metal to metal contact.


What happens when you dilute the AW additives in commercially formulated motor oil; does Friction Reducer have a supplemental AW additive to make up for this deficiency?

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It can be said that esters slide upon themselves much more freely than oils do.


Anything can be said, but where are the SAE journal or tribology papers that support this statement?

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When a sufficient amount of esters are added to oil, the result is that the oil becomes as slippery as esters themselves.


A lubricant containing 100% ester becomes a 100% ester lube, but you need an additive package with a whole host of chemistries to supplement any base lube.

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The unique film provided by the negative polarity of the Friction Reducer attached to positively charged metals is the secret to all of Friction Reducer benefits over older ester technology.


So are you saying that there is a net equilibrium of charges at the surface?

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Hot Shot’s Secret Friction Reducer also increases fluid flow in power steering and hydraulic systems, like those found in old tractors and construction equipment. Friction Reducer is great for keeping everything running smoothly, efficiently, and up to government standards!


How does it increase fluid flow and what government standards are being met?
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Hello MolaKule, thanks for your comment. I’m one of the Web Developers that work within the Marketing team. I reached out to Kevin, our lead Chemical Engineer, for some of these questions. His responses and mine are separated below.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
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Most esters are polar as most of the BITOG members know.

Spencer: Our site is written for a general audience, some people that come to the site might know that esters are polar, some viewers do not know that they are polar. I apologize if you believe some of the content is unneeded, but unfortunately it was not written with only the BITOG members in mind.

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Ever heard of buffers and metal deactivators/inhibitors?

Kevin: Yes, I have.
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If TMP decanoate is not an EP agent then why not just state that it acts as an Anti-Wear (AW) agent? If not an AW agent then just say it is a friction reducer. More unnecessary verbiage and fluff.

Kevin: We do. That is what we try to convey, even the product name is Friction Reducer.
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Not all polymers or polymer esters will thicken an oil. Ever heard of the Kentjenlube polymers?

Kevin: Yes, we have Kentjenlube on the shelf in the lab. We did not attempt to make a blanket statement that all polymer or polymer ester additives will thicken oil, we noted in the product description that this product is not a polymer additive, this was intended to clear any confusion that it thickens the oil to do its job.
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What happens when you dilute the AW additives in commercially formulated motor oil; does Friction Reducer have a supplemental AW additive to make up for this deficiency?

Kevin: No it does not require a supplemental AW additive. Extensive testing has proven that that the treat ratio helps the synergy of the ABD package already there. No additional additive is needed. For instance, we just had ASTM G133 ran on Rotella by itself as well as Rotella with the recommended dosage of Friction Reducer. Test conditions were as follows: 200rpm for 40,000 cycles, 10mm stroke, 50N force, oil heated to 88 degrees Celsius. Wear scar was measured at 8350 mm2 with the Rotella by itself, Rotella with the Friction Reducer lowered wear scar to 6140 mm2, a 26.5% reduction in wear.
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Anything can be said, but where are the SAE journal or tribology papers that support this statement?

Kevin: We are a contributing, active member of the STLE, we regularly attend meetings and review journals. Unfortunately, we do not typically publish our data because it gives everyone else in our industry the confidential details of our formula and test results. We have had competitors in our industry attempt to replicate our formulas in the past, for now our results and findings are confidential.
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A lubricant containing 100% ester becomes a 100% ester lube, but you need an additive package with a whole host of chemistries to supplement any base lube.

Kevin: Correct, which is why we don’t recommend using it above a 10% dosage rate in a fully formulated oil. The product page says to not exceed 7.5%. The product label specifies a 5% treatment ratio.
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So are you saying that there is a net equilibrium of charges at the surface?

Kevin: Not quite sure what you are asking here.
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How does it increase fluid flow and what government standards are being met?

Kevin: Friction Reducer increases flow by reducing the friction along passageways, tubes and hoses that oil travels through. This has been proven both in lab tests and real world tests. It meets all government standards meaning that there are no harmful chemicals or products in the Friction Reducer. Friction Reducer does not use chemicals that need reported according to SARA 302. It does not exceed the threshold of reporting levels in SARA 313, and it is ranked as an acute health hazard according to SARA 311 and 312. It follows U.S. state regulations including Pennsylvania Right to Know, New Jersey Right to Know and California Prop 65. It is in accordance with The Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) Chemical Substance Inventory requirements in the U.S. as well as AICS (Australia), DSL (Canada), IECSC (China), ENCS (Japan), ISHL (Japan), KECI (Korea), NZIoC (New Zealand), and PICCS (Philippines). As well as various other standards.


Spencer: It is obvious that you have a great grasp of the products and industry testing standards. If you would be interested, I would be more than happy to arrange a call with Chris (CEO/President) and Kevin (our lead Chemical Engineer) for you. In fact, when I printed off this discussion to ask Kevin for insight he instantly recognized your username from forums and white papers/documents you have written in the past. They would be more than happy to explain these answers in more detail, as well as answer any other questions you might have regarding Friction Reducer or any of the other products. As per forum rules I cannot promote, link or otherwise encourage another message board or chat, but if you PM me we can set up a phone call or I can provide contact information. We could record the phone conversation for here or we can continue a discussion on this thread if you would prefer that, but I'm afraid I'm not as knowledgeable as Kevin and Chris would be so my responses might be delayed compared to directly communicating with them. My response contains purely informational intent, with no intention of being promotional. Thank you for your time MolaKule.
 
Originally Posted By: SpencerHSS
For instance, we just had ASTM G133 ran on Rotella by itself as well as Rotella with the recommended dosage of Friction Reducer.

Which API certifications, ACEA standards, or builder approvals rely on ASTM G133?
 
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The unique film provided by the negative polarity of the Friction Reducer attached to positively charged metals is the secret to all of Friction Reducer benefits over older ester technology.



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So are you saying that there is a net equilibrium of charges at the surface?


I was attempting to have you clarify this statement.

Just about any ester will show Coulombic Attraction or affinity to metals so what why is this "Unique?"
 
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The unique film provided by the negative polarity of the Friction Reducer attached to positively charged metals is the secret to all of Friction Reducer benefits over older ester technology.



Quote:
So are you saying that there is a net equilibrium of charges at the surface?


I was attempting to have you clarify this statement.

Just about any ester will show Coulombic Attraction or affinity to metals so what why is this "Unique?"


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Kevin: Friction Reducer increases flow by reducing the friction along passageways, tubes and hoses that oil travels through. This has been proven both in lab tests and real world tests.


Fluid velocity depends on viscosity, pressure, surface roughness, area of passageways, etc. Velocity generally varies as the square of the ID of the orifice or pipe for laminar flow.

For turbulent flow, the friction varies as the square of the velocity.

So what physical attribute of your product allows increased fluid flow in laminar or turbulent flow regimes?

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It meets all government standards meaning that there are no harmful chemicals or products in the Friction Reducer.


OK, but I never questioned the accuracy of your SDS.

The original statement implied your product meant some government performance standard for machines.
 
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