How much is ethanol-free worth?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Not really. Gas closed at $1.52 on the CME trading board today. Ethanol closed at $1.51. No price benefit either way. The folks selling E0 and charging more for it are just taking advantage of the crowd that will pay more for E0 because they "perceive" some supposed benefit from buying it. Not talking about small engine stuff, as it can make a difference there.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
E0 is the new snake oil.
LOL. Ethanol attracting water is fact. E10 phase separation is fact. It's certainly not snake oil in slightly used vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
E0 is the new snake oil.
LOL. Ethanol attracting water is fact. E10 phase separation isk fact. It's certainly not snake oil in slightly used vehicles.


E10 can combine with a lot of water before phase separation. E0 can't absorb any water so you haveimmediat phase separation.

There is absolutely nothing better about alcohol free gas. With ethanol, you make more power, its cleaner and it drys gas. Its the people with oil company stock who are so desperate to spread dumb misinformation about ethanol.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There is absolutely nothing better about alcohol free gas. With ethanol, you make more power, its cleaner and it drys gas. Its the people with oil company stock who are so desperate to spread dumb misinformation about ethanol.


The energy content is higher with subsequently better fuel economy.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There is absolutely nothing better about alcohol free gas. With ethanol, you make more power, its cleaner and it drys gas. Its the people with oil company stock who are so desperate to spread dumb misinformation about ethanol.


The energy content is higher with subsequently better fuel economy.


So what, alcohol makes more power. Alcohol is clean. Pricing is competitive. So you're hanging the whole argument on range of a tank?

And its really sad that people won't spend a few pennies more to drive a cleaner vehicle.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There is absolutely nothing better about alcohol free gas. With ethanol, you make more power, its cleaner and it drys gas. Its the people with oil company stock who are so desperate to spread dumb misinformation about ethanol.

The energy content is higher with subsequently better fuel economy.


So what, alcohol makes more power. Alcohol is clean. Pricing is competitive. So you're hanging the whole argument on range of a tank?

And its really sad that people won't spend a few pennies more to drive a cleaner vehicle


Nah, what's really sad is when people make sweeping statements such as "There is absolutely nothing better about alcohol free gas" and when corrected, obfuscate and deflect.
 
I'm interested to see the evidence that E10 makes a vehicle cleaner? Be sure the evidence takes into account the environmental impact of producing ethanol.

It's also curious that the guy driving old heavy polluters is talking about other's pollution, which is much less than his.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Nah, what's really sad is when people make sweeping statements such as "There is absolutely nothing better about alcohol free gas" and when corrected, obfuscate and deflect.


His specialty. Then he'll insult when cornered.

The alky boyz are always high on fumes I guess. The entire marine engine industry is roiled about alky blends. The outdoor power boyz are just as riled. I've seen amazingly quick gelling of fuel since E10 came out in small engines.

I also have proven reductions in gas mileage across a fleet that prove that we are burning MORE fuel to emit MORE pollutants with ethanol blends than with pure fuel. What is good about burning more fuel? Even a small amount nationally over millions of vehicles is significant.

And then we could start in on the manufacturing process as well. Water, fuel, food, etc. are all consumed in the process.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There is absolutely nothing better about alcohol free gas. With ethanol, you make more power, its cleaner and it drys gas. Its the people with oil company stock who are so desperate to spread dumb misinformation about ethanol.

I don't have huge problems with E10. Heck, I used to seek it intentionally before it became either fashionable or mandated.

However, without getting political, none of this stuff works right with a bunch of government involvement/interference. The ethanol mandate up here really skewed the market. All of these things need to be able to stand on their own. Heck, even all the modern emissions controls on gasoline engines did, inadvertently, destroy the LPG fuel market in Canada, and didn't do any favours for getting natural gas as an alternative. With respect to E85, I think there are a whole 3 stations in all of Canada that sell the product.
 
You'd probably have a lot more E85 pumps if the mandates didn't exist. E10 mandates drove down the supply and drove up the cost of ethanol.
 
Quote:
I also have proven reductions in gas mileage across a fleet that prove that we are burning MORE fuel to emit MORE pollutants with ethanol blends than with pure fuel. What is good about burning more fuel? Even a small amount nationally over millions of vehicles is significant.

And then we could start in on the manufacturing process as well. Water, fuel, food, etc. are all consumed in the process.


Ya, what ever you do don't figure in that combine that measures how much fuel it uses by the hour/acre not mile, not sure they can fraction it down that far. Then there's the truck following along catching the corn and the tractor running the auger to get it in to the bin to be dried by propane because it needs to be stored, you can't store moist corn. Now we have to get it out of the bin into the semi to be delivered. All this and it hasn't even left the farm.

Sorry, no pie charts or graphs.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There is absolutely nothing better about alcohol free gas. With ethanol, you make more power, its cleaner and it drys gas. Its the people with oil company stock who are so desperate to spread dumb misinformation about ethanol.


The energy content is higher with subsequently better fuel economy.


By less than 2% with oxygenated gasoline and this is on the high side versus E0.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Nah, what's really sad is when people make sweeping statements such as "There is absolutely nothing better about alcohol free gas" and when corrected, obfuscate and deflect.


His specialty. Then he'll insult when cornered.

The alky boyz are always high on fumes I guess. The entire marine engine industry is roiled about alky blends. The outdoor power boyz are just as riled. I've seen amazingly quick gelling of fuel since E10 came out in small engines.

I also have proven reductions in gas mileage across a fleet that prove that we are burning MORE fuel to emit MORE pollutants with ethanol blends than with pure fuel. What is good about burning more fuel? Even a small amount nationally over millions of vehicles is significant.

And then we could start in on the manufacturing process as well. Water, fuel, food, etc. are all consumed in the process.


Less than 2% energy loss when using E10 vs E0 on oxygenated gasoline blends(2% is the high estimate). I agree government mandates are the pits, the market should decide what services, and goods are produced.

This being said this should be the only detractor against ethanol because the energy output inefficiency is a false narrative. As is "gelling" because the outdoor equipment would die from infrequent use just as quick or faster before "gelling" of E10 blends would take effect.
 
That is partially true, but also there is a cap on the amount of ethanol that can be produced. So it becomes a supply problem larger than the E10 mandates are causing.

Phase separation can occur in some instances, but one needs to stand back and view the problem for what it is. If you are getting that much water in your fuel to make phase separation a problem, time to look at correcting that problem instead of ignoring it and blaming the fuel. And as was stated correctly, if you are getting that much water in your fuel, it is going to phase separate anyway since water and gas don't mix. At least with ethanol, it absorbs the minute traces of water that might get in the fuel system and carry it right on thru. The best cure for any water issues would be a good water separator filter like diesel have on them. I never cease to be amazed at how people will blame stuff for their problems, but they (nor the OEM's) have the foresight to put on the right stuff to prevent the problems in the first place.
 
Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
Quote:
I also have proven reductions in gas mileage across a fleet that prove that we are burning MORE fuel to emit MORE pollutants with ethanol blends than with pure fuel. What is good about burning more fuel? Even a small amount nationally over millions of vehicles is significant.

And then we could start in on the manufacturing process as well. Water, fuel, food, etc. are all consumed in the process.


Ya, what ever you do don't figure in that combine that measures how much fuel it uses by the hour/acre not mile, not sure they can fraction it down that far. Then there's the truck following along catching the corn and the tractor running the auger to get it in to the bin to be dried by propane because it needs to be stored, you can't store moist corn. Now we have to get it out of the bin into the semi to be delivered. All this and it hasn't even left the farm.

Sorry, no pie charts or graphs.


Thanks for the point. It is only a part of the issue, but really helps folks see the falsehood here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top