I own a 2016 Ford Escape with the 2.0L Ecoboost direct injected engine.I do mostly highway milage and run the oil for a 6K OCI.My question is since all direct injection engines have a problem with carbon build up is this worth having over any other type of fuel injection?The cost in the future to clean these engines will not be cheap.Ford has no "factory"approved way of dealing with this issue.My dealer I believe uses BG products but it's not Ford approved.Joe
Direct Injection-Is it a good thing?
- Thread starter Joeforester
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I would stay far away from direct injection engines until the technology addresses the negative "Side Affects" . Don't even get me started on the Ford Ecodoom motors!
It's a good thing. Some earlier GDI engines gave GDI a bad wrap but I don't think Ford has a big problem with it. My advice is don't baby your engine.
DI is really good for fuel management, with the drawback being you don't have fuel washing over the backside of the intake valve to minimize deposits. Your best options are a low NOACK oil, and minimizing oil vapors in the intake that will cause those deposits. Just my thinking out of the box here, but in the future I see a separate tank for a chemical/cleaner injection into the intake tract controlled by the ECU. Pretty simple, IMO to add an injector past the MAF, and meter in a cleaner though the airstream.
Diesels have their DEF, gassers would have a VIC, valve/intake cleaner.
Diesels have their DEF, gassers would have a VIC, valve/intake cleaner.
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DI is one of a few technologies that are of greater good, but have some instances of causing new issues that might not have been fully predictable from the lab. It will be sorted out, just like automatic transmissions & HVAC systems were not initially as good as they became over years of development. However I think they will sort out DI much faster.
Originally Posted By: Joeforester
since all direct injection engines have a problem with carbon build up is this worth having over any other type of fuel injection?
There millions of DI engines on the road, how are you quantifying "all" based on a very minute amount of DI owners reporting problems on internet forums? There are also plenty of GDI and Eco-Boost owners on this forum alone who are hitting 100k and have not reported any drive-ability issues or perceived power loss. How do you explain that?
But let's say you're right. Perhaps as part of a 50k-60k service you have to do a walnut shell blasting. I've seen prices at about $400 for this service. Expensive, kind of but given the efficiency of these engines (power, efficiency, and clean emissions) this isn't a terrible "burden". Another potential option that some manufacturers are already doing is a second set of port injectors that spray a small amount of fuel on the intake valves. And then there is the catch can crowd (the CCC?) who are convinced these are a necessary item on all GDI engines. Manufacturers can redesign their PVC system (some have done some tweaks) to help things.
since all direct injection engines have a problem with carbon build up is this worth having over any other type of fuel injection?
There millions of DI engines on the road, how are you quantifying "all" based on a very minute amount of DI owners reporting problems on internet forums? There are also plenty of GDI and Eco-Boost owners on this forum alone who are hitting 100k and have not reported any drive-ability issues or perceived power loss. How do you explain that?
But let's say you're right. Perhaps as part of a 50k-60k service you have to do a walnut shell blasting. I've seen prices at about $400 for this service. Expensive, kind of but given the efficiency of these engines (power, efficiency, and clean emissions) this isn't a terrible "burden". Another potential option that some manufacturers are already doing is a second set of port injectors that spray a small amount of fuel on the intake valves. And then there is the catch can crowd (the CCC?) who are convinced these are a necessary item on all GDI engines. Manufacturers can redesign their PVC system (some have done some tweaks) to help things.
It appears that DI issues with some engines are a thing-of-the- past. Considering the advantages of DI, I probably wouldn't be interested in an engine that didn't use it based on my personal experience. Ed
My wife's 09 Acadia has DI. Only 60k so far but no problems. A friend has an Acadia with about 80k. No problems on it yet either.
I have an 08 DI 3.6 GM Cadillac 120,000 miles. No problems. Some things get exaggerated.
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
But let's say you're right. Perhaps as part of a 50k-60k service you have to do a walnut shell blasting. I've seen prices at about $400 for this service. Expensive, kind of but given the efficiency of these engines (power, efficiency, and clean emissions) this isn't a terrible "burden".
I get your point but I'd be kinda peeved at this cost every 2-3 years. It's timing belt territory costs, which many try to avoid.
Is this something that one could DIY at home? Turn motor to close valves, blast, vac out?
On the flip side it's apparently where we're headed. It does seem to be getting past the teething stage.
But let's say you're right. Perhaps as part of a 50k-60k service you have to do a walnut shell blasting. I've seen prices at about $400 for this service. Expensive, kind of but given the efficiency of these engines (power, efficiency, and clean emissions) this isn't a terrible "burden".
I get your point but I'd be kinda peeved at this cost every 2-3 years. It's timing belt territory costs, which many try to avoid.
Is this something that one could DIY at home? Turn motor to close valves, blast, vac out?
On the flip side it's apparently where we're headed. It does seem to be getting past the teething stage.
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
Originally Posted By: Joeforester
since all direct injection engines have a problem with carbon build up is this worth having over any other type of fuel injection?
There millions of DI engines on the road, how are you quantifying "all" based on a very minute amount of DI owners reporting problems on internet forums? There are also plenty of GDI and Eco-Boost owners on this forum alone who are hitting 100k and have not reported any drive-ability issues or perceived power loss. How do you explain that?
But let's say you're right. Perhaps as part of a 50k-60k service you have to do a walnut shell blasting. I've seen prices at about $400 for this service. Expensive, kind of but given the efficiency of these engines (power, efficiency, and clean emissions) this isn't a terrible "burden". Another potential option that some manufacturers are already doing is a second set of port injectors that spray a small amount of fuel on the intake valves. And then there is the catch can crowd (the CCC?) who are convinced these are a necessary item on all GDI engines. Manufacturers can redesign their PVC system (some have done some tweaks) to help things.
Just one comment: Ford has no procedure for eliminating intake valve deposits other than removing the head(s), as dislodged carbon particles can damage/destroy the turbocharger on their way out. I expect other DI/turbo makers have similar restrictions.
There's enough history out there to assume problems will be infrequent, but if they occur it's not gonna be a cheap fix.
Originally Posted By: Joeforester
since all direct injection engines have a problem with carbon build up is this worth having over any other type of fuel injection?
There millions of DI engines on the road, how are you quantifying "all" based on a very minute amount of DI owners reporting problems on internet forums? There are also plenty of GDI and Eco-Boost owners on this forum alone who are hitting 100k and have not reported any drive-ability issues or perceived power loss. How do you explain that?
But let's say you're right. Perhaps as part of a 50k-60k service you have to do a walnut shell blasting. I've seen prices at about $400 for this service. Expensive, kind of but given the efficiency of these engines (power, efficiency, and clean emissions) this isn't a terrible "burden". Another potential option that some manufacturers are already doing is a second set of port injectors that spray a small amount of fuel on the intake valves. And then there is the catch can crowd (the CCC?) who are convinced these are a necessary item on all GDI engines. Manufacturers can redesign their PVC system (some have done some tweaks) to help things.
Just one comment: Ford has no procedure for eliminating intake valve deposits other than removing the head(s), as dislodged carbon particles can damage/destroy the turbocharger on their way out. I expect other DI/turbo makers have similar restrictions.
There's enough history out there to assume problems will be infrequent, but if they occur it's not gonna be a cheap fix.
Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
I would stay far away from direct injection engines until the technology addresses the negative "Side Affects" . Don't even get me started on the Ford Ecodoom motors!
My feelings exactly. They'll get it right, its only a matter of time. It has improved greatly. All new technology has growing pains, some pains take a little longer to go away.
I would stay far away from direct injection engines until the technology addresses the negative "Side Affects" . Don't even get me started on the Ford Ecodoom motors!
My feelings exactly. They'll get it right, its only a matter of time. It has improved greatly. All new technology has growing pains, some pains take a little longer to go away.
I think if the deposit issues could be resolved, they would be good. Better power and efficiency are possible. I am not pleased with manufacturer's solutions to the problems yet.
Originally Posted By: Old Mustang Guy
My wife's 09 Acadia has DI. Only 60k so far but no problems. A friend has an Acadia with about 80k. No problems on it yet either.
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I have an 08 DI 3.6 GM Cadillac 120,000 miles. No problems. Some things get exaggerated.
Exactly. I'm approaching 50K miles on the Impala, no problems at all. I'm a member at an Impala forum, and while some HIGHLY recommend installing a "catch can" on the PCV system (mostly the guys that are selling them) others have said the same as the two members I've quoted.
FWIW, I use Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum oil (both relatively low noack) and top tier gasoline.
My wife's 09 Acadia has DI. Only 60k so far but no problems. A friend has an Acadia with about 80k. No problems on it yet either.
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I have an 08 DI 3.6 GM Cadillac 120,000 miles. No problems. Some things get exaggerated.
Exactly. I'm approaching 50K miles on the Impala, no problems at all. I'm a member at an Impala forum, and while some HIGHLY recommend installing a "catch can" on the PCV system (mostly the guys that are selling them) others have said the same as the two members I've quoted.
FWIW, I use Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum oil (both relatively low noack) and top tier gasoline.
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Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Originally Posted By: Old Mustang Guy
My wife's 09 Acadia has DI. Only 60k so far but no problems. A friend has an Acadia with about 80k. No problems on it yet either.
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I have an 08 DI 3.6 GM Cadillac 120,000 miles. No problems. Some things get exaggerated.
Exactly. I'm approaching 50K miles on the Impala, no problems at all. I'm a member at an Impala forum, and while some HIGHLY recommend installing a "catch can" on the PCV system (mostly the guys that are selling them) others have said the same as the two members I've quoted.
FWIW, I use Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum oil (both relatively low noack) and top tier gasoline.
+1
Originally Posted By: Old Mustang Guy
My wife's 09 Acadia has DI. Only 60k so far but no problems. A friend has an Acadia with about 80k. No problems on it yet either.
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I have an 08 DI 3.6 GM Cadillac 120,000 miles. No problems. Some things get exaggerated.
Exactly. I'm approaching 50K miles on the Impala, no problems at all. I'm a member at an Impala forum, and while some HIGHLY recommend installing a "catch can" on the PCV system (mostly the guys that are selling them) others have said the same as the two members I've quoted.
FWIW, I use Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum oil (both relatively low noack) and top tier gasoline.
+1
Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Originally Posted By: Old Mustang Guy
My wife's 09 Acadia has DI. Only 60k so far but no problems. A friend has an Acadia with about 80k. No problems on it yet either.
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I have an 08 DI 3.6 GM Cadillac 120,000 miles. No problems. Some things get exaggerated.
Exactly. I'm approaching 50K miles on the Impala, no problems at all. I'm a member at an Impala forum, and while some HIGHLY recommend installing a "catch can" on the PCV system (mostly the guys that are selling them) others have said the same as the two members I've quoted.
FWIW, I use Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum oil (both relatively low noack) and top tier gasoline.
+1 i only use QT gas since new and PP.
Originally Posted By: Old Mustang Guy
My wife's 09 Acadia has DI. Only 60k so far but no problems. A friend has an Acadia with about 80k. No problems on it yet either.
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I have an 08 DI 3.6 GM Cadillac 120,000 miles. No problems. Some things get exaggerated.
Exactly. I'm approaching 50K miles on the Impala, no problems at all. I'm a member at an Impala forum, and while some HIGHLY recommend installing a "catch can" on the PCV system (mostly the guys that are selling them) others have said the same as the two members I've quoted.
FWIW, I use Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum oil (both relatively low noack) and top tier gasoline.
+1 i only use QT gas since new and PP.
DI is fantastic technology with lots of potential, but current laws can lead to undesirable side effects.
If you're really bothered about intake cleanliness use a carburettor
If you're really bothered about intake cleanliness use a carburettor
Its was mostly European cars and the 2.5 Toyota motors that had the most DI issues. GM seems to be one of the better ones overall and Toyotas Dual inject (port and DI) has also worked well.
I would still do a throttle body/intake cleaning every 30k on cars that have little to no problems but ever 10k on the ones that have known issues.
I would still do a throttle body/intake cleaning every 30k on cars that have little to no problems but ever 10k on the ones that have known issues.
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