https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/
Not sure if I've seen this linked here before. I thought some might enjoy the read.
Not sure if I've seen this linked here before. I thought some might enjoy the read.
Interesting read
- Thread starter cb_13
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It's been referenced numerous times here...and several long and recent threads. Like the Motor Oil University material, there's probably more wrong in the 540RAT article than what's right. I do agree it's interesting. It's been shot full of holes, to the point where most everyone is tired of responding to it. Always good for a lively debate though.
If you use QSUD 5W-20 in your car, it will probably leave a smile of your face. If you use a 0w-40 grade, there's hardly anything "good" about those in the RAT experiment.
If you use QSUD 5W-20 in your car, it will probably leave a smile of your face. If you use a 0w-40 grade, there's hardly anything "good" about those in the RAT experiment.
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It has been discussed probably 100 times in the last 12 months. Lots of talk on it if you search.
Originally Posted By: cb_13
The more I learn about oil, the more I feel like manufacturers specs are the most important thing.
This.
The more I learn about oil, the more I feel like manufacturers specs are the most important thing.
This.
Any minute the scoffers will be chiming in. It's a guide, a starting point; not an absolute law. Relax
Originally Posted By: Toaster_Jer
Any minute the scoffers will be chiming in. It's a guide, a starting point; not an absolute law. Relax
You obviously haven't read it...RAT claims his findings outweigh every other metric ... far from suggesting it as a "guide"
Any minute the scoffers will be chiming in. It's a guide, a starting point; not an absolute law. Relax
You obviously haven't read it...RAT claims his findings outweigh every other metric ... far from suggesting it as a "guide"
I have a relationship with RAT. His "problem statement" is about race engines loosing cams and lifters in classes that require flat tappet style valve trains. Race engines run very aggressive lobe ramps and high rate springs to control valve float and bounce.
His testing was for clients that are not your average OEM engines. He extrapolates a LOT, does not run tests to verify repeat-ability in samples, etc. And he carries his math to extremes to separate oils that would be judged here on BITOG as equivalent. And he measures at only one temp mostly. So we really don't know what cold oil performance is on his rig...
But, saying all that - I find that even if his data is somewhat questionable (and it may be), it's a another look at oils and that is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with any of the oils in his to 1/3. There are concerns with oils in his lower 1/3 for performance engine applications.
For OEM engines, his rational may not apply to well ...
you can gain some more insight here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4045499/1 But, like lot of BITOG threads it has wandered
His testing was for clients that are not your average OEM engines. He extrapolates a LOT, does not run tests to verify repeat-ability in samples, etc. And he carries his math to extremes to separate oils that would be judged here on BITOG as equivalent. And he measures at only one temp mostly. So we really don't know what cold oil performance is on his rig...
But, saying all that - I find that even if his data is somewhat questionable (and it may be), it's a another look at oils and that is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with any of the oils in his to 1/3. There are concerns with oils in his lower 1/3 for performance engine applications.
For OEM engines, his rational may not apply to well ...
you can gain some more insight here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4045499/1 But, like lot of BITOG threads it has wandered
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
But, saying all that - I find that even if his data is somewhat questionable (and it may be), it's a another look at oils and that is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with any of the oils in his to 1/3. There are concerns with oils in his lower 1/3 for performance engine applications.
For OEM engines, his rational may not apply to well ...
That's why I find the discussion on the GM engineers and oil recommendation sketchy.
If I was faced with two oils at the same shop, same price, and same manufacturer's approvals, his tests "might" sway me.
There's a large body of evidence pointing to the reactions that take place in use making a large difference to the outcomes...and the oil in your street engine is "used oil" a lot longer than it is new.
But, saying all that - I find that even if his data is somewhat questionable (and it may be), it's a another look at oils and that is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with any of the oils in his to 1/3. There are concerns with oils in his lower 1/3 for performance engine applications.
For OEM engines, his rational may not apply to well ...
That's why I find the discussion on the GM engineers and oil recommendation sketchy.
If I was faced with two oils at the same shop, same price, and same manufacturer's approvals, his tests "might" sway me.
There's a large body of evidence pointing to the reactions that take place in use making a large difference to the outcomes...and the oil in your street engine is "used oil" a lot longer than it is new.
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
I have a relationship with RAT. His "problem statement" is about race engines loosing cams and lifters in classes that require flat tappet style valve trains. Race engines run very aggressive lobe ramps and high rate springs to control valve float and bounce.
His testing was for clients that are not your average OEM engines. He extrapolates a LOT, does not run tests to verify repeat-ability in samples, etc. And he carries his math to extremes to separate oils that would be judged here on BITOG as equivalent. And he measures at only one temp mostly. So we really don't know what cold oil performance is on his rig...
But, saying all that - I find that even if his data is somewhat questionable (and it may be), it's a another look at oils and that is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with any of the oils in his to 1/3. There are concerns with oils in his lower 1/3 for performance engine applications.
For OEM engines, his rational may not apply to well ...
you can gain some more insight here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4045499/1 But, like lot of BITOG threads it has wandered
If "race" and/or flat tappet performance engines are RAT's focus, why is the #1 rated oil on the list a 5W-20? And why are the 40 grade oils as well as a lot of boutique racing oils in the bottom 1/2? Those results don't seem consistent to me. And to confuse things even more, their top 2 ranked oils (QSUD 5w-20 and M1 5w-30) perform average or worse at elevated oil temps of 275 deg F....about where a performance/racing engine might operate for extended periods. I didn't spend the time to thoroughly check the list for where the first MB 229.5 and Porsche A40 spec'd oils first show up. But M1 0w-40 is one of them (ranked #89 or bottom 1/3). Castrol Edge 0w-40 Euro can't be ranked much lower than it is at #135.
I have a relationship with RAT. His "problem statement" is about race engines loosing cams and lifters in classes that require flat tappet style valve trains. Race engines run very aggressive lobe ramps and high rate springs to control valve float and bounce.
His testing was for clients that are not your average OEM engines. He extrapolates a LOT, does not run tests to verify repeat-ability in samples, etc. And he carries his math to extremes to separate oils that would be judged here on BITOG as equivalent. And he measures at only one temp mostly. So we really don't know what cold oil performance is on his rig...
But, saying all that - I find that even if his data is somewhat questionable (and it may be), it's a another look at oils and that is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with any of the oils in his to 1/3. There are concerns with oils in his lower 1/3 for performance engine applications.
For OEM engines, his rational may not apply to well ...
you can gain some more insight here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4045499/1 But, like lot of BITOG threads it has wandered
If "race" and/or flat tappet performance engines are RAT's focus, why is the #1 rated oil on the list a 5W-20? And why are the 40 grade oils as well as a lot of boutique racing oils in the bottom 1/2? Those results don't seem consistent to me. And to confuse things even more, their top 2 ranked oils (QSUD 5w-20 and M1 5w-30) perform average or worse at elevated oil temps of 275 deg F....about where a performance/racing engine might operate for extended periods. I didn't spend the time to thoroughly check the list for where the first MB 229.5 and Porsche A40 spec'd oils first show up. But M1 0w-40 is one of them (ranked #89 or bottom 1/3). Castrol Edge 0w-40 Euro can't be ranked much lower than it is at #135.
would have been nice of them to test mobil delvac1 le 5w30 since it is also an sn oil and a truck oil
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Those results don't seem consistent to me.
And that is, unfortunately, no surprise, given the nature of the testing, at least what we know about it.
Those results don't seem consistent to me.
And that is, unfortunately, no surprise, given the nature of the testing, at least what we know about it.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
I have a relationship with RAT. His "problem statement" is about race engines loosing cams and lifters in classes that require flat tappet style valve trains. Race engines run very aggressive lobe ramps and high rate springs to control valve float and bounce.
His testing was for clients that are not your average OEM engines. He extrapolates a LOT, does not run tests to verify repeat-ability in samples, etc. And he carries his math to extremes to separate oils that would be judged here on BITOG as equivalent. And he measures at only one temp mostly. So we really don't know what cold oil performance is on his rig...
But, saying all that - I find that even if his data is somewhat questionable (and it may be), it's a another look at oils and that is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with any of the oils in his to 1/3. There are concerns with oils in his lower 1/3 for performance engine applications.
For OEM engines, his rational may not apply to well ...
you can gain some more insight here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4045499/1 But, like lot of BITOG threads it has wandered
If "race" and/or flat tappet performance engines are RAT's focus, why is the #1 rated oil on the list a 5W-20? And why are the 40 grade oils as well as a lot of boutique racing oils in the bottom 1/2? Those results don't seem consistent to me. And to confuse things even more, their top 2 ranked oils (QSUD 5w-20 and M1 5w-30) perform average or worse at elevated oil temps of 275 deg F....about where a performance/racing engine might operate for extended periods. I didn't spend the time to thoroughly check the list for where the first MB 229.5 and Porsche A40 spec'd oils first show up. But M1 0w-40 is one of them (ranked #89 or bottom 1/3). Castrol Edge 0w-40 Euro can't be ranked much lower than it is at #135.
That is what his testing machine shows. That is what I get from the testing. Remember the temperatures of the oil can be much higher at the friction points than the sump temperatures. Like the oil filters tests that have been posted would the best filters really allow your engine to live longer when the engines with care and some luck out last the transmissions and body.
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
I have a relationship with RAT. His "problem statement" is about race engines loosing cams and lifters in classes that require flat tappet style valve trains. Race engines run very aggressive lobe ramps and high rate springs to control valve float and bounce.
His testing was for clients that are not your average OEM engines. He extrapolates a LOT, does not run tests to verify repeat-ability in samples, etc. And he carries his math to extremes to separate oils that would be judged here on BITOG as equivalent. And he measures at only one temp mostly. So we really don't know what cold oil performance is on his rig...
But, saying all that - I find that even if his data is somewhat questionable (and it may be), it's a another look at oils and that is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with any of the oils in his to 1/3. There are concerns with oils in his lower 1/3 for performance engine applications.
For OEM engines, his rational may not apply to well ...
you can gain some more insight here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4045499/1 But, like lot of BITOG threads it has wandered
If "race" and/or flat tappet performance engines are RAT's focus, why is the #1 rated oil on the list a 5W-20? And why are the 40 grade oils as well as a lot of boutique racing oils in the bottom 1/2? Those results don't seem consistent to me. And to confuse things even more, their top 2 ranked oils (QSUD 5w-20 and M1 5w-30) perform average or worse at elevated oil temps of 275 deg F....about where a performance/racing engine might operate for extended periods. I didn't spend the time to thoroughly check the list for where the first MB 229.5 and Porsche A40 spec'd oils first show up. But M1 0w-40 is one of them (ranked #89 or bottom 1/3). Castrol Edge 0w-40 Euro can't be ranked much lower than it is at #135.
That is what his testing machine shows. That is what I get from the testing. Remember the temperatures of the oil can be much higher at the friction points than the sump temperatures. Like the oil filters tests that have been posted would the best filters really allow your engine to live longer when the engines with care and some luck out last the transmissions and body.
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