Observation with PUP and Elite Catch Can

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I empty my catch can every time I check my oil and reset my trip odometer and that is normally around 300 miles. I put 525 miles on the catch can without emptying it with my first run of Pennzoil Ultra. When I unscrewed the can it was full of all kinds of black looking junk and stuff that looks like grit or sand. I cleaned it out and just checked it again after 400 miles and it was pure oil this time as it normally is.

The amount of oil I got was the same as the factory fill stuff but I am wondering if the Ultra can really clean well enough that it cleaned junk out of the system? I did notice the filter screen and separator look much cleaner now. I have put 2,500 miles on the PUP and caught 5 ounces of oil and junk that would have otherwise been sucked in my engine.
 
Originally Posted By: 15SilvyEcotec
I am wondering if the Ultra can really clean well enough that it cleaned junk out of the system?


How much "junk" are you expecting in a 2015 truck ??
 
Originally Posted By: oilmutt
What is a catch can,what is it purpose?


On a 2015 without forced induction? To lighten your wallet.
 
Originally Posted By: KingCake
Originally Posted By: oilmutt
What is a catch can,what is it purpose?


On a 2015 without forced induction? To lighten your wallet.


The purpose of a catch can is to stop oil from being ingested by direct injected engine since the intake valve does not have the luxury of being cleaned by gas. The forced induction engines use a clean side can. I installed mine at 458 miles and many who know DI engines and see what it does to intake valves would say that is 458 too many. How long would you suggest would be a good time to install one? I have got way over a quart of oil since the install.

You should also see the can when it is cooler weather at all the condensation and nasty looking milky water. Just google DI and coking if you want to see it up close
 
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Originally Posted By: 15SilvyEcotec
Originally Posted By: KingCake
Originally Posted By: oilmutt
What is a catch can,what is it purpose?


On a 2015 without forced induction? To lighten your wallet.


The purpose of a catch can is to stop oil from being ingested by direct injected engine since the intake valve does not have the luxury of being cleaned by gas. The forced induction engines use a clean side can. I installed mine at 458 miles and many who know DI engines and see what it does to intake valves would say that is 458 too many. How long would you suggest would be a good time to install one? I have got way over a quart of oil since the install.

You should also see the can when it is cooler weather at all the condensation and nasty looking milky water. Just google DI and coking if you want to see it up close


that's not how it works
 
Originally Posted By: KingCake
Originally Posted By: 15SilvyEcotec
Originally Posted By: KingCake
Originally Posted By: oilmutt
What is a catch can,what is it purpose?


On a 2015 without forced induction? To lighten your wallet.


The purpose of a catch can is to stop oil from being ingested by direct injected engine since the intake valve does not have the luxury of being cleaned by gas. The forced induction engines use a clean side can. I installed mine at 458 miles and many who know DI engines and see what it does to intake valves would say that is 458 too many. How long would you suggest would be a good time to install one? I have got way over a quart of oil since the install.

You should also see the can when it is cooler weather at all the condensation and nasty looking milky water. Just google DI and coking if you want to see it up close


that's not how it works


Not how what works? Catch Can? Please educate me?
 
With every catch can I've seen installed the owner regularly retrieved some nasty looking stuff. They're doing something. Is there a tangible benefit, maybe, maybe not. We know it's not hurting anything by trapping that stuff and keeping it from being burned in the engine.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
With every catch can I've seen installed the owner regularly retrieved some nasty looking stuff. They're doing something. Is there a tangible benefit, maybe, maybe not. We know it's not hurting anything by trapping that stuff and keeping it from being burned in the engine.


Thats is the thing, The evidence of high mileage engine's with cans are just not available. I also agree it is not hurting anything and I just feel catching the oil is helping. Some people buy Cold air intakes and such, I just decided to get a catch can from a good company. The cost was not that great ($190) so no big deal.

It would seem that if the oil I caught was allowed in the combustion chamber it would have to reduce octane and a host of other issue's. I know how it works and feel better having it. I did many hours of research before getting one. DI engine with just 5,000 miles already had valve's with carbon and the 20,000 to 30,000 mile engine were having the valves walnut media blasted to remove the carbon. When I removed my original PCV hose oil dripped from it and the truck was very new.
 
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A lot of people put catch cans on the 5.0 and catch plenty of gunk. I just never got around to getting one. I took the PCV hose off a couple week ago to inspect and there was quite a bit of oil. Messing with the hose also caused a big puff of blue smoke the next time I started the engine. I was a little panicked wondering if it had been doing that but I somehow missed it. Luckily the next morning all was well.
 
Originally Posted By: 15SilvyEcotec

I have put 2,500 miles on the PUP and caught 5 ounces of oil and junk that would have otherwise been sucked in my engine.


That's about 150ml in about 4000 KM.
Or a shot of oily & watery junk for the engine every 750 miles.

Good work keeping it out of your engine intake.
 
I do wonder whether the time has come for the OEMs to fundamentally rethink what they do with engine blow-by.

As I recall, GM invented the Positive Crankcase Ventilation system in WWII. They then 'gifted' it to the world in the 1960's to get rid of the polluting draught-tubes that dumped all sorts of nasties into the atmosphere.

The simple PCV system on simple engines has served us well for decades but there are several developments that to me, seem to me to be causing the PCV system to be more of a viability than an asset. We have to move to thinner, lighter and potentially more volatile engine oils. Turbochargers and other forms of forced induction are becoming the norm rather than the exception. Piston rings are thinner and have lower tension than ever before. The power density of engines has increased greatly and at peak power run significantly hotter. We have gasolines that are more likely to contain stuff that may not burn cleanly. Finally we have GDI engines emerging where the intake system is no longer 'washed' by fresh gasoline.

The original PCV system was designed to burn blow-by gas that was predominantly contaminated with fuel. However today's PCV systems are increasingly having to deal with higher amounts of blow-by that's contaminated with both fuel AND OIL! It's the latter that causes me so much concern. Clearly it causes the OEMs concern too as evidenced by the effort they put it to separator design but these are next to useless then oil is truly in the vapour phase. Once oil gets passed the PCV all sorts of fun and games can start. Fouled inlet valves, chamber deposits, knock (I firmly believe that LSPI is caused by oil burning), ring deposits, stuck oil control rings, etc, etc.

Oil is meant to stay in the crankcase. When in the crankcase, the additives in the oil do a good job of protecting the oil from oxidation. However those same additives do nothing if the oil is set on fire! What's more, oils are designed to cope with the products of fuel combustion but NOT the far dirtier by-products of engine oil burning.

Right now, the only way of decoupling blow-by from the intake is by fitting a catch can. Whilst I can sympathise with the logic, you should not be doing this as an individual; the OEMs should be actively tackling this problem on the the behalf of everyone!
 
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To make it simpler for those that have not really seen or heard of a catch can, it is just basically a filter placed in the PCV to intake hose. I use them. Are they essential? Probably not. But they do catch a lot of condensation, oil, and other nasty vapor that would go to the intake and coat/layer the intake manifold and intake valves. And over extended time, combined heat from the motor and minute amounts of air contaminates that make it thru the air filter, it can really make for a nasty intake. I have seen PCV oil crud "pooled" at the bottom of V motor intake manifolds. Not sure how some might consider that an ok thing, but they do by dissing the catch can idea. And it can do some real build up on intake valves, be it it a DI engine or not. Maybe not enough to disable the motor, but maximum efficiency can definitely be impacted.

One thing I do find interesting, is that the larger HD commercial truck engines, the OEM's have installed oil trap systems in the CCV that has been required on them since 2007. They saw the oil/intake problem the minute CCV was still in development and put "catch can" filters on the CCV before the intake. Now theirs is a slightly different approach in that what it catches drains back to the crankcase. They have a filter than needs replacement on a scheduled basis. But then, commercial HD engine makers tend not to "cheap out" on their engines compared to the regular consumer vehicle OEM stuff. They HD OEM's see a problem, they address it. The regular consumer vehicle OEM's just claim things are normal and leave any problems to the consumer to deal with.
 
Looking at their Site (Elite) it seems this problem is mainly exhibited by GM products?? I've built and raced fords for many years, both boosted and N/A and have never really seen much of an issue with excessive oil in the intake tract or coming from the PCV... maybe GM engineers needs to look into this a bit more and see why their engines produce so much blow-by on basically new engines?
 
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Looking at their Site (Elite) it seems this problem is mainly exhibited by GM products?? I've built and raced fords for many years, both boosted and N/A and have never really seen much of an issue with excessive oil in the intake tract or coming from the PCV... maybe GM engineers needs to look into this a bit more and see why their engines produce so much blow-by on basically new engines?


Plenty other makers have had to deal with this issue. I think only the Ecoboost engine use Direct Engine. I own a Fusion with the 1.6 GTDI and do not have a catch can yet but I will.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
A lot of people put catch cans on the 5.0 and catch plenty of gunk. I just never got around to getting one. I took the PCV hose off a couple week ago to inspect and there was quite a bit of oil. Messing with the hose also caused a big puff of blue smoke the next time I started the engine. I was a little panicked wondering if it had been doing that but I somehow missed it. Luckily the next morning all was well.


The main claim (and it is a claim since there are currently ZERO independent studies showing they do anything beyond lightening your wallet) of catch cans is that they prevent intake valve deposits on direct injection engines where fuel injectors no longer spray (and clean) the intake valves. As the Ford 5.0 engine is a port fuel injected engine, there is even less purely hypothetical reasons to run a catch can.
 
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I recently replaced the thermostat housing on the Jag and the process requires removing the throttle body and neck which allows a clear view into the intake manifold. There was a healthy coating of oil on the lower floor of the manifold. I didn't do anything to clean it up, but I did run some BG44K through the car to clean up the valves and cylinders of any resulting deposits and am thinking of getting a catch can. I've heard though with the one way PCV valve the Jaguar uses that anything that can affect PCV flow can cause serious idle issues. One guy I know of had problems maintaining idle when his valve stuck open, which I found odd because most PCVs I've seen are just a tube, no control valve whatsoever on non forced induction cars.
 
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