So I plugged in my ODB2 using torque pro and it reads 18 INCH/H2O and filter minder is still stuck at 5 inch/H2O vacuum.
Who to trust?
Who to trust?
Trust filter minder or ODB2 output?????
- Thread starter Stewie
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OBD2.
Are you sure thats not inches of mercury? From the MAP? Was that reading at full throttle?
If its MAP reading it'll be behind the throttle body, which is of course a huge restriction, so you'd have to check while at full throttle.
If its MAP reading it'll be behind the throttle body, which is of course a huge restriction, so you'd have to check while at full throttle.
Originally Posted By: Stewie
So I plugged in my ODB2 using torque pro and it reads 18 INCH/H2O and filter minder is still stuck at 5 inch/H2O vacuum.
Who to trust?
Which value are you trying to determine?
The Filterminder measures vacuum at the manifold side of the air filter.
OBD2 is measuring manifold vacuum.
Apples and oranges.
I would trust them both for the two different things they are measuring.
BTW, you will not be able to determine anything about the state of your air filter by measuring the manifold vacuum.
HTH
So I plugged in my ODB2 using torque pro and it reads 18 INCH/H2O and filter minder is still stuck at 5 inch/H2O vacuum.
Who to trust?
Which value are you trying to determine?
The Filterminder measures vacuum at the manifold side of the air filter.
OBD2 is measuring manifold vacuum.
Apples and oranges.
I would trust them both for the two different things they are measuring.
BTW, you will not be able to determine anything about the state of your air filter by measuring the manifold vacuum.
HTH
What gaijinnv said. You're not measuring the same things.
And his last point about the filter and manifold pressure is correct.
And his last point about the filter and manifold pressure is correct.
Aren't filter minders cheaply made toys found in Coney Island Claw Machines?
EDITORIAL: It makes more economic sense to risk changing any air filter early than to buy, install and trust a cheap toy.
My flame suit is on.
EDITORIAL: It makes more economic sense to risk changing any air filter early than to buy, install and trust a cheap toy.
My flame suit is on.
Not really. There are filters that will cost you $70 to replace.
Even if it's $15 and double your interval it'll pay for itself the first time out.
Even if it's $15 and double your interval it'll pay for itself the first time out.
Thanks all
That makes more sense
That makes more sense
Originally Posted By: Kira
Aren't filter minders cheaply made toys found in Coney Island Claw Machines?
EDITORIAL: It makes more economic sense to risk changing any air filter early than to buy, install and trust a cheap toy.
My flame suit is on.
Ha, I agree with you. I don't trust the consistency of the spring gauge.
Aren't filter minders cheaply made toys found in Coney Island Claw Machines?
EDITORIAL: It makes more economic sense to risk changing any air filter early than to buy, install and trust a cheap toy.
My flame suit is on.
Ha, I agree with you. I don't trust the consistency of the spring gauge.
Originally Posted By: Kira
Aren't filter minders cheaply made toys found in Coney Island Claw Machines?
EDITORIAL: It makes more economic sense to risk changing any air filter early than to buy, install and trust a cheap toy.
My flame suit is on.
Your statement reflects an obvious lack of experience, and a plenitude of specious reasoning.
Your last statement reflects your expectation that it won't hold up.
Aren't filter minders cheaply made toys found in Coney Island Claw Machines?
EDITORIAL: It makes more economic sense to risk changing any air filter early than to buy, install and trust a cheap toy.
My flame suit is on.
Your statement reflects an obvious lack of experience, and a plenitude of specious reasoning.
Your last statement reflects your expectation that it won't hold up.
Originally Posted By: Kira
Aren't filter minders cheaply made toys found in Coney Island Claw Machines?
EDITORIAL: It makes more economic sense to risk changing any air filter early than to buy, install and trust a cheap toy.
My flame suit is on.
Go take a look at just about any OTR truck and you will find one on the air intake or like every truck I had will have one on the dash.
If its good enough for my $100k truck its good enough for my motorhome and all my cars.
ROD
Aren't filter minders cheaply made toys found in Coney Island Claw Machines?
EDITORIAL: It makes more economic sense to risk changing any air filter early than to buy, install and trust a cheap toy.
My flame suit is on.
Go take a look at just about any OTR truck and you will find one on the air intake or like every truck I had will have one on the dash.
If its good enough for my $100k truck its good enough for my motorhome and all my cars.
ROD
It's easy to check the accuracy of a minder with a vacuum hand pump and dial gauge.
Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
It's easy to check the accuracy of a minder with a vacuum hand pump and dial gauge.
Its perhaps not quite as easy to check the accuracy of a vacuum hand pump and dial gauge with a water manometer, but at least you don't have to buy anything.
It's easy to check the accuracy of a minder with a vacuum hand pump and dial gauge.
Its perhaps not quite as easy to check the accuracy of a vacuum hand pump and dial gauge with a water manometer, but at least you don't have to buy anything.
You could also make a manometer with a bucket of water, clear plastic hose and ruler
.
Fill the hose in the bucket, lift one end out of the water an inch or two, attatch the minder, then lift it until you have a 15" (or whatever) column of water in the hose.
The hose doesn't need to be straight, just measure the distance from the water top in the hose to the level in the bucket.
.
Fill the hose in the bucket, lift one end out of the water an inch or two, attatch the minder, then lift it until you have a 15" (or whatever) column of water in the hose.
The hose doesn't need to be straight, just measure the distance from the water top in the hose to the level in the bucket.
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That said, is restriction the whole story?
I could imagine a situation where there wasn't enough dirt to cause a restriction, but over time, the dirt that there was had worked through the filter matrix and hence into the engine.
I dunno if this happens to any significant extent, but if it did, that might be a reason for time limits independent of restriction measurements.
Easiest way to test it would be to drive around some Chernobyl back-roads for a while, but I daresay other testing facilities will eventually become available closer to home.
I could imagine a situation where there wasn't enough dirt to cause a restriction, but over time, the dirt that there was had worked through the filter matrix and hence into the engine.
I dunno if this happens to any significant extent, but if it did, that might be a reason for time limits independent of restriction measurements.
Easiest way to test it would be to drive around some Chernobyl back-roads for a while, but I daresay other testing facilities will eventually become available closer to home.
Well, that might be a good testing methodology, to trace the source of the dust.
Realistically though, outside of agricultural applications, I've never seen an automotive filter that dirty, even with monumental neglect, at least not around here. So, in normal use, I wouldn't know what we could really expect the mechanism of failure to be. Would it be a filter letting more dust through at some point down the road? Or, would it be plugged to the point of catastrophic failure?
Realistically though, outside of agricultural applications, I've never seen an automotive filter that dirty, even with monumental neglect, at least not around here. So, in normal use, I wouldn't know what we could really expect the mechanism of failure to be. Would it be a filter letting more dust through at some point down the road? Or, would it be plugged to the point of catastrophic failure?
Originally Posted By: Garak
Well, that might be a good testing methodology, to trace the source of the dust.
Passed through another possible test site NE of here on the way to Hokkaido by train. Difficult to get my car there though.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Realistically though, outside of agricultural applications, I've never seen an automotive filter that dirty, even with monumental neglect, at least not around here.
Well, my speculation was that it MIGHT not necessarily have to be very (or visibly) dirty for dirt to work its way through. I've no data for this, but its the only justification I can think of for mileage/time limits, where restriction measurements are available.
Come to think of it, are restriction gauges fitted to new cars as OE? ( don't know much about new cars)
Well, that might be a good testing methodology, to trace the source of the dust.
Passed through another possible test site NE of here on the way to Hokkaido by train. Difficult to get my car there though.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Realistically though, outside of agricultural applications, I've never seen an automotive filter that dirty, even with monumental neglect, at least not around here.
Well, my speculation was that it MIGHT not necessarily have to be very (or visibly) dirty for dirt to work its way through. I've no data for this, but its the only justification I can think of for mileage/time limits, where restriction measurements are available.
Come to think of it, are restriction gauges fitted to new cars as OE? ( don't know much about new cars)
Depends on a lot of factors. The most likely secenario for a panel filter is that it collapses and gets pulled into the intake enough that air can get around it.
Ive seen probably half a dozen Fram's in Dodge Cummins that had failed in that manner. Then Fram seriously beefed up the wire mesh on the back.
The dust isnt going to get 'pulled though' unless you blow air though the filter, which damages the media. Water ingestion damages the filter as well and so will rodents.
This is why I check it every OCI but I just put it back in if it looks good and the filterminder is OK.
Ive seen probably half a dozen Fram's in Dodge Cummins that had failed in that manner. Then Fram seriously beefed up the wire mesh on the back.
The dust isnt going to get 'pulled though' unless you blow air though the filter, which damages the media. Water ingestion damages the filter as well and so will rodents.
This is why I check it every OCI but I just put it back in if it looks good and the filterminder is OK.
Dunno. The paper on the Ford Focus lifetime filter says:-
"The efficiency drop off at higher face velocities may be
attributed to particle bounce and re-entrainment."
which suggests that, with this foam filter at least, particles can get pulled through.
I suppose to make it all the way through a filter that'd probably have to happen more than once, though.
"The efficiency drop off at higher face velocities may be
attributed to particle bounce and re-entrainment."
which suggests that, with this foam filter at least, particles can get pulled through.
I suppose to make it all the way through a filter that'd probably have to happen more than once, though.
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