I just bought a 2004 Honda civic. It specs 5w20 but I was considering 0w20 year round. Will this be ok? What would be the better choice? I live in ny so it gets a little chilly during the winter. Also what 0w20 or 5w20 would be better? Pup or m1 ep
0w20 or 5w20?
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I went through this with our '09 Mazda 5. I wanted to buy some of the highly-regarded Mazda-branded high-moly 0W-20, but the parts man said that MY had not been back-spec'd for it.
I bought some Mobil 1 0W-20 instead, but have since standardized on Mobil 1 5W-30 for my entire fleet. If Mobil 1 0W-30 were cheaper here I would use it in everything.
I bought some Mobil 1 0W-20 instead, but have since standardized on Mobil 1 5W-30 for my entire fleet. If Mobil 1 0W-30 were cheaper here I would use it in everything.
Honda has back spec'd the civic as 0W-20 acceptable 2001 onward. It will be fine.
0W-20 M1ep is pretty cheap at Walmart too...
0W-20 M1ep is pretty cheap at Walmart too...
The Canadian Mazda 0w-20, is supplied by PetroCan. It is not the US oil.
It never gets chilly enough in most of NYS that a 0W would offer any cold start advantage over a 5W.
The 0W would likely have higher NOACK volatility and might cause higher consumption than a 5W of equivalent quality.
While you could certainly use a 0W-20 and the M1 site would probably advise you to use 0W-20 AFE, I don't know that you'd gain anything by doing so.
So, if you want to use 0W-20, it certainly would be up to the task but might not be any improvement. To say that these two grades have the same viscosity at operating temperature doesn't paint the entire picture either.
If I were going to use a 0W-20 in this car, I'd probably select M1 AFE although EP would be a good choice as well, just a little pricier. Either oil offers very good cold specs, which is also true for QSUD but not PP, based upon the most recent PQIA VOAs of 0W-20 grade oils. There are also semi-annual rebate offers on M1, making it the no-brainer low cost pick. SOPUS has rebate offers regularly, but SOPUS rebates are always a bit iffy while those from XOM have never been a problem in my experience.
The Ultra is a good choice of filter, although it isn't the only good filter out there. These can be found at good deals and Fram does offer the occasional MIR as well.
The 0W would likely have higher NOACK volatility and might cause higher consumption than a 5W of equivalent quality.
While you could certainly use a 0W-20 and the M1 site would probably advise you to use 0W-20 AFE, I don't know that you'd gain anything by doing so.
So, if you want to use 0W-20, it certainly would be up to the task but might not be any improvement. To say that these two grades have the same viscosity at operating temperature doesn't paint the entire picture either.
If I were going to use a 0W-20 in this car, I'd probably select M1 AFE although EP would be a good choice as well, just a little pricier. Either oil offers very good cold specs, which is also true for QSUD but not PP, based upon the most recent PQIA VOAs of 0W-20 grade oils. There are also semi-annual rebate offers on M1, making it the no-brainer low cost pick. SOPUS has rebate offers regularly, but SOPUS rebates are always a bit iffy while those from XOM have never been a problem in my experience.
The Ultra is a good choice of filter, although it isn't the only good filter out there. These can be found at good deals and Fram does offer the occasional MIR as well.
I have read that 0w20 requires a better base stock than 5w20. I have seen no data but, wonder if it is true? Ed
The car is 12 years old. Why not save money and use a conventional or blend 5w-20? Gas mileage savings and cold starting benefits are mostly hype. I use 5w-20 synthetic or blend in my Ridgeline.
Like said, you could use 0w20 in place of 5w20, but it would be hard to quantify any advantage in doing so.
FWIW, in my new Subaru, I actually used 5w20 instead of 0w20. I notice zero difference in cold start noise or fuel economy.
FWIW, in my new Subaru, I actually used 5w20 instead of 0w20. I notice zero difference in cold start noise or fuel economy.
Use whatever oil is less expensive. I got the same car and any oil will get you to the half million mile mark as your D17 engine is easy on oil.
0w20 oil had zero gas mileage advantage compared to 5w20 oil.
0w20 oil had zero gas mileage advantage compared to 5w20 oil.
I would always buy 0w-20 because of better base stocks. Last winter we reached -35 deg F in Michigan so 0w probably helped a bit, if you live in upstate NY or travel to Canada you probably experience similar weather.
PUP is pretty hard to find and I have been 'denied' rebates from them multiple times, I would avoid that company. M1 EP is easy (Walmart) to get and they have honored rebates without fail for me.
PUP is pretty hard to find and I have been 'denied' rebates from them multiple times, I would avoid that company. M1 EP is easy (Walmart) to get and they have honored rebates without fail for me.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
It never gets chilly enough in most of NYS that a 0W would offer any cold start advantage over a 5W.
A common misconception.
The reason the OEMs specify a 0W-20 over a 5W-20 is that it is lighter at all start-up temp's, even on a hot summer day. That's because of the inherently higher viscosity index of a 0W-20, especially many of the OEM 0W-20's. The result is improved start-up/warm-up lubrication with fuel economy advantages.
It never gets chilly enough in most of NYS that a 0W would offer any cold start advantage over a 5W.
A common misconception.
The reason the OEMs specify a 0W-20 over a 5W-20 is that it is lighter at all start-up temp's, even on a hot summer day. That's because of the inherently higher viscosity index of a 0W-20, especially many of the OEM 0W-20's. The result is improved start-up/warm-up lubrication with fuel economy advantages.
Originally Posted By: NormanBuntz
The car is 12 years old. Why not save money and use a conventional or blend 5w-20? Gas mileage savings and cold starting benefits are mostly hype. I use 5w-20 synthetic or blend in my Ridgeline.
These days, most conventionals contain synthetic anyway. The line is blurring due to the stricter API & OEM requirements. Economies of scale have also brought down the costs of creating the synthetics.
The car is 12 years old. Why not save money and use a conventional or blend 5w-20? Gas mileage savings and cold starting benefits are mostly hype. I use 5w-20 synthetic or blend in my Ridgeline.
These days, most conventionals contain synthetic anyway. The line is blurring due to the stricter API & OEM requirements. Economies of scale have also brought down the costs of creating the synthetics.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
It never gets chilly enough in most of NYS that a 0W would offer any cold start advantage over a 5W.
A common misconception.
The reason the OEMs specify a 0W-20 over a 5W-20 is that it is lighter at all start-up temp's, even on a hot summer day. That's because of the inherently higher viscosity index of a 0W-20, especially many of the OEM 0W-20's. The result is improved start-up/warm-up lubrication with fuel economy advantages.
Makes sense. But specifying 0w-20 is an easy way to force the owner into using at least a synthetic blend, providing (arguably) better protection and allowing IOLMs to be programmed accordingly. The 5w-20 synthetic blend alternative for a Honda had or Toyota would be yet another Dexos-like specification and create even more confusion.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
It never gets chilly enough in most of NYS that a 0W would offer any cold start advantage over a 5W.
A common misconception.
The reason the OEMs specify a 0W-20 over a 5W-20 is that it is lighter at all start-up temp's, even on a hot summer day. That's because of the inherently higher viscosity index of a 0W-20, especially many of the OEM 0W-20's. The result is improved start-up/warm-up lubrication with fuel economy advantages.
Makes sense. But specifying 0w-20 is an easy way to force the owner into using at least a synthetic blend, providing (arguably) better protection and allowing IOLMs to be programmed accordingly. The 5w-20 synthetic blend alternative for a Honda had or Toyota would be yet another Dexos-like specification and create even more confusion.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
It never gets chilly enough in most of NYS that a 0W would offer any cold start advantage over a 5W.
A common misconception.
The reason the OEMs specify a 0W-20 over a 5W-20 is that it is lighter at all start-up temp's, even on a hot summer day. That's because of the inherently higher viscosity index of a 0W-20, especially many of the OEM 0W-20's. The result is improved start-up/warm-up lubrication with fuel economy advantages.
+1.....^^^^ THIS ^^^^
I have be using 0w20 (M-1 & QSUD) for a number of years now in my ol' 03' Ford Focus (2.3). It works fine and does have the advantage of just a little better start-up and warm-up on those cold winter mornings (sometimes as low as -10 to-15 here in Central Oregon)....as well as slightly better fuel economy.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
It never gets chilly enough in most of NYS that a 0W would offer any cold start advantage over a 5W.
A common misconception.
The reason the OEMs specify a 0W-20 over a 5W-20 is that it is lighter at all start-up temp's, even on a hot summer day. That's because of the inherently higher viscosity index of a 0W-20, especially many of the OEM 0W-20's. The result is improved start-up/warm-up lubrication with fuel economy advantages.
+1.....^^^^ THIS ^^^^
I have be using 0w20 (M-1 & QSUD) for a number of years now in my ol' 03' Ford Focus (2.3). It works fine and does have the advantage of just a little better start-up and warm-up on those cold winter mornings (sometimes as low as -10 to-15 here in Central Oregon)....as well as slightly better fuel economy.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
A common misconception.
The reason the OEMs specify a 0W-20 over a 5W-20 is that it is lighter at all start-up temp's, even on a hot summer day. That's because of the inherently higher viscosity index of a 0W-20, especially many of the OEM 0W-20's. The result is improved start-up/warm-up lubrication with fuel economy advantages.
Agree with the economy side of things, but again, what's with the "improved start-up/warm up lubrication"
Any facts that you can bring would be worthy of inclusion.
When an oil is in it's pumpable range, it's going to fill the galleries at pretty much exactly the same rate...
Once they are full, it's there, and lubricating.
A common misconception.
The reason the OEMs specify a 0W-20 over a 5W-20 is that it is lighter at all start-up temp's, even on a hot summer day. That's because of the inherently higher viscosity index of a 0W-20, especially many of the OEM 0W-20's. The result is improved start-up/warm-up lubrication with fuel economy advantages.
Agree with the economy side of things, but again, what's with the "improved start-up/warm up lubrication"
Any facts that you can bring would be worthy of inclusion.
When an oil is in it's pumpable range, it's going to fill the galleries at pretty much exactly the same rate...
Once they are full, it's there, and lubricating.
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
I have be using 0w20 (M-1 & QSUD) for a number of years now in my ol' 03' Ford Focus (2.3). It works fine and does have the advantage of just a little better start-up and warm-up on those cold winter mornings (sometimes as low as -10 to-15 here in Central Oregon)....as well as slightly better fuel economy.
Actually, the thinner lube will warm up slightly (imperceptably probably) slower, as there's less viscous drag.
The viscous drag is predominantly what heats the oil, and is the cause of the fuel savings from running a higher VI oil.
I have be using 0w20 (M-1 & QSUD) for a number of years now in my ol' 03' Ford Focus (2.3). It works fine and does have the advantage of just a little better start-up and warm-up on those cold winter mornings (sometimes as low as -10 to-15 here in Central Oregon)....as well as slightly better fuel economy.
Actually, the thinner lube will warm up slightly (imperceptably probably) slower, as there's less viscous drag.
The viscous drag is predominantly what heats the oil, and is the cause of the fuel savings from running a higher VI oil.
This is the new "5W20 VS 5W30"
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