19k mile engine. Full of sludge!
- Thread starter 2000NWXJ
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There is rebuilt, reman and used engines. RockAuto has reman engines for $1800. That is what I did. I assume your first 4.0 engine died from piston skirt clacks?
Get the oil analyzed. NAPA had a $15.75 UOA kit.
Maybe you did not get the engine you thought.
Given the install costs, I would go with a reman with warranty if your engine is toast.
Get the oil analyzed. NAPA had a $15.75 UOA kit.
Maybe you did not get the engine you thought.
Given the install costs, I would go with a reman with warranty if your engine is toast.
Is this the engine you installed back in 2013? Have you noticed any loss of coolant? You definitely have coolant in the oil. The engine may very well be seriously damaged.
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Is this the engine you installed back in 2013? Have you noticed any loss of coolant? You definitely have coolant in the oil. The engine may very well be seriously damaged.
For sure. I wouldn't do anything silly like try to put a head on the shortblock. You'll just be back in it soon for rod knock.
Hopefully, it has a warranty, but those are usually really short, like 1 year or 2 years I think. Unfortunate.
Is this the engine you installed back in 2013? Have you noticed any loss of coolant? You definitely have coolant in the oil. The engine may very well be seriously damaged.
For sure. I wouldn't do anything silly like try to put a head on the shortblock. You'll just be back in it soon for rod knock.
Hopefully, it has a warranty, but those are usually really short, like 1 year or 2 years I think. Unfortunate.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
the first picture has a green tint because of his camera flash. the second does not. looks like just sludge to me.
Yeah the color on top looks flash altered for sure, and if the coolant hasn't move much if at all i'd focus on cleanup and send in a UOA to to see what it says. Assuming the seller wont come clean and will blame the poster.
Its ugly as sin in there, but its still pretty slimy in there I seem some but not yet lots of dried "cake" so you should be able to clean it up reasonably well if a bit laborious. Its on life support but savable to some extent. Top of the rocker mounts look built up bad but everything else Ive seen stuff recover from.
Couple 2-5 oil filters over the next 100-2000 miles with make up oil only should start to clean that up, if you want to get more aggressive you can try MMO or Auto-RX, but Ive always had good luck with short OCI's and rapid filter changes on light synthetic oil, Id try to avoid using additives until the cut open examined filters become quite clear, or as the guys here indicate you could plug up something with a torrent of released gunk.
Cut your first one open within 1-200 or so miles of the change and see what you are dealing with in terms of release. The few dollars of make up oil and the filters cost little.
Most of my sludge cleaning experience comes from helping friends work on abused v8's tractors mowers gensets and motorcycles/ATV's, and Rv's not small 4 or 6's.
If I cared about that engine Id also probably buy a few dollars worth of magnets for the in the form of a high power drain plug and the filter mag as the the sludge contains a high % of ferrous contaminants you will be releasing into the oil stream at accelerated rate.
the first picture has a green tint because of his camera flash. the second does not. looks like just sludge to me.
Yeah the color on top looks flash altered for sure, and if the coolant hasn't move much if at all i'd focus on cleanup and send in a UOA to to see what it says. Assuming the seller wont come clean and will blame the poster.
Its ugly as sin in there, but its still pretty slimy in there I seem some but not yet lots of dried "cake" so you should be able to clean it up reasonably well if a bit laborious. Its on life support but savable to some extent. Top of the rocker mounts look built up bad but everything else Ive seen stuff recover from.
Couple 2-5 oil filters over the next 100-2000 miles with make up oil only should start to clean that up, if you want to get more aggressive you can try MMO or Auto-RX, but Ive always had good luck with short OCI's and rapid filter changes on light synthetic oil, Id try to avoid using additives until the cut open examined filters become quite clear, or as the guys here indicate you could plug up something with a torrent of released gunk.
Cut your first one open within 1-200 or so miles of the change and see what you are dealing with in terms of release. The few dollars of make up oil and the filters cost little.
Most of my sludge cleaning experience comes from helping friends work on abused v8's tractors mowers gensets and motorcycles/ATV's, and Rv's not small 4 or 6's.
If I cared about that engine Id also probably buy a few dollars worth of magnets for the in the form of a high power drain plug and the filter mag as the the sludge contains a high % of ferrous contaminants you will be releasing into the oil stream at accelerated rate.
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It does look like coolant, but as some said, maybe that is the flash. Otherwise your problem is likely because your engine cannot breath. Poor crankcase ventilation will sludge up an engine in fairly short order.
I would get the ventilation issue fixed and then run an oil known for its detergentcy. I know the Mobil 1 0w40 is packed with calcium, which would help clean it out.
I would get the ventilation issue fixed and then run an oil known for its detergentcy. I know the Mobil 1 0w40 is packed with calcium, which would help clean it out.
Take a sample for a UOA first. That'll back you up along with LOTS of detailed, sharp photos. Be sure and turn on the TIME & DATE function so they appear in the photo.
If the engine is toast and you think you have a warranty claim, then don't do anything to it, as the heads, block & pan are now evidence.
OTOH, if you DO decide to flush it, I've used BG109 on occasion with good results. However, you may need to either do multiple flushes or take it to a station with a BG flush machine and show them your pictures.
Note I've never dealt with a sludged motor before. Good luck...
If the engine is toast and you think you have a warranty claim, then don't do anything to it, as the heads, block & pan are now evidence.
OTOH, if you DO decide to flush it, I've used BG109 on occasion with good results. However, you may need to either do multiple flushes or take it to a station with a BG flush machine and show them your pictures.
Note I've never dealt with a sludged motor before. Good luck...
Yes, with a lot it would be milkshake. With low percentages it won't show color wise but the oil will still take a beating. On my grandparents old GM 3400 engine, the first time I tested it, the oil came out fine, but had 1.43% coolant and the oil was not in good shape.. It had 0.8% Insolubles (sludge) after only 2500 miles.
It takes a fair amount of coolant to make the milkshake appearance.
Go to NAPA and get the Wix oil test kit. That will verify for sure.
It takes a fair amount of coolant to make the milkshake appearance.
Go to NAPA and get the Wix oil test kit. That will verify for sure.
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Originally Posted By: 2000NWXJ
Thanks for all the responses. Mechanic said it was not coolant that it would be more like a milkshake. The oil is thick and dark black in normal light.
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Yes, with a lot it would be milkshake. With low percentages it won't show color wise but the oil will still take a beating. On my grandparents old GM 3400 engine, the first time I tested it, the oil came out fine, but had 1.43% coolant and the oil was not in good shape.. It had 0.8% Insolubles (sludge) after only 2500 miles.
It takes a fair amount of coolant to make the milkshake appearance.
Go to NAPA and get the Wix oil test kit. That will verify for sure.
Colt45ws is correct. Your mechanic is not. It doesn't take much coolant at all to turn oil into a gooey, sludgy mess- and it WILL NOT turn light colored. I've seen it several times before, to the point where I can usually tell from the oil that comes out of the pan during an oil change. If you shine a pen light at it while poking your finger into the outgoing stream of oil, it'll appear chocolate colored and you'll barely be able to see through it, if at all. Normal oil is generally translucent and lacks the chocolate color.
Thanks for all the responses. Mechanic said it was not coolant that it would be more like a milkshake. The oil is thick and dark black in normal light.
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Yes, with a lot it would be milkshake. With low percentages it won't show color wise but the oil will still take a beating. On my grandparents old GM 3400 engine, the first time I tested it, the oil came out fine, but had 1.43% coolant and the oil was not in good shape.. It had 0.8% Insolubles (sludge) after only 2500 miles.
It takes a fair amount of coolant to make the milkshake appearance.
Go to NAPA and get the Wix oil test kit. That will verify for sure.
Colt45ws is correct. Your mechanic is not. It doesn't take much coolant at all to turn oil into a gooey, sludgy mess- and it WILL NOT turn light colored. I've seen it several times before, to the point where I can usually tell from the oil that comes out of the pan during an oil change. If you shine a pen light at it while poking your finger into the outgoing stream of oil, it'll appear chocolate colored and you'll barely be able to see through it, if at all. Normal oil is generally translucent and lacks the chocolate color.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Would they have sold you an engine from another 2000/2001 that wasn't actually rebuilt? Or reused a known-bad head?
Yes, very possible.
Unfortunately, some engine re-builders refuse to acknowledge that the 1999-2002 4.0s had failing heads. Basically they check the head for cracks when re-building, and if there aren't any it gets machined, then slapped on the block and sent out.
A guy on the Jeep Strokers forum actually had a guy from Jasper engines tell him that the 4.0 engines with the 0331 head do not crack heads and that anyone who told him that was just trying to make money off of him. The whole reason that guy built a 4.6L stroker was because his engine cracked the head and coolant ruined the bearings.
OP: Whatever is causing the problem, I would certainly do a UOA and send it to the engine builder if its a reman so they can warranty it should coolant be the issue. I would definitely try a different oil in the mean time.
Would they have sold you an engine from another 2000/2001 that wasn't actually rebuilt? Or reused a known-bad head?
Yes, very possible.
Unfortunately, some engine re-builders refuse to acknowledge that the 1999-2002 4.0s had failing heads. Basically they check the head for cracks when re-building, and if there aren't any it gets machined, then slapped on the block and sent out.
A guy on the Jeep Strokers forum actually had a guy from Jasper engines tell him that the 4.0 engines with the 0331 head do not crack heads and that anyone who told him that was just trying to make money off of him. The whole reason that guy built a 4.6L stroker was because his engine cracked the head and coolant ruined the bearings.
OP: Whatever is causing the problem, I would certainly do a UOA and send it to the engine builder if its a reman so they can warranty it should coolant be the issue. I would definitely try a different oil in the mean time.
not many things would sludge delo in 5000mile intervals.
I have seen engines with 19000 miles WITHOUT an oil change that look much better.
So if the engine was in fact rebuilt and not just a junkyard pull.. no way that engine sludges up that much without something drastically wrong.
Coolant is by far the most likely. Do a UOA so you know.
I have seen engines with 19000 miles WITHOUT an oil change that look much better.
So if the engine was in fact rebuilt and not just a junkyard pull.. no way that engine sludges up that much without something drastically wrong.
Coolant is by far the most likely. Do a UOA so you know.
Originally Posted By: 2000NWXJ
Thanks for all the responses. Mechanic said it was not coolant that it would be more like a milkshake. The oil is thick and dark black in normal light.
What is the relationship of the mechanic to the engine? Did he install it or just looking at it now after the sludge issue.
Get a UOA, its $15. You should have some miles on the oil if it was just changed. Worst case is you spent $15 and can cross off coolant as an issue. Most likely thing is you will have documentation to go after the engine rebuilder? My reman engine has some overheating indicators on it so the rebuilder can tell if it was overheated.
Thanks for all the responses. Mechanic said it was not coolant that it would be more like a milkshake. The oil is thick and dark black in normal light.
What is the relationship of the mechanic to the engine? Did he install it or just looking at it now after the sludge issue.
Get a UOA, its $15. You should have some miles on the oil if it was just changed. Worst case is you spent $15 and can cross off coolant as an issue. Most likely thing is you will have documentation to go after the engine rebuilder? My reman engine has some overheating indicators on it so the rebuilder can tell if it was overheated.
What everyone has said. +?
i had a 01...head cracked...engine looked EXACTLY like yours. Easy check...pressure test the coolant system and watch for leak down...easy to spot.
+1 on coolant contamination. My 4.8L 2000 Sierra that I posted about a few weeks back looks EXACTLY like this inside. I pressure tested the cooling system and found a crack on the driver's side head where coolant was getting into the crankcase. No milkshake on mine either - just dark chocolate pudding.
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