'13 KTM Duke 690 Amsoil Synth Dirt Bike Oil 10w60
- Thread starter albertdi
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using an ultra sonic cleaner for the screens is a little crazy, just blow them out with wd40. Also paper filters , filter better than those stainless steel holed thingies, plus you don't have to clean them.
Im all for the 20w50 MC oil 3.99/5.99 per quart or even spurge to $8 per quart, I run it in my ktm 500 race motor, and it does well.
Now that motor , I run 800 to 900 intervals or 15 to 17 hours and that on an offroad, I also don't change the filters every change, but do clean the screens, and nothing is in them. The magnet might have a little smooge.
You mentioned that you don't have time to change the oil once per month, but at 1200 miles that would be about every month and 1/2 for 2000 mile oci. But now talking about ultra sonic cleaning, that's super time consuming, and IMO nuts!!
Im all for the 20w50 MC oil 3.99/5.99 per quart or even spurge to $8 per quart, I run it in my ktm 500 race motor, and it does well.
Now that motor , I run 800 to 900 intervals or 15 to 17 hours and that on an offroad, I also don't change the filters every change, but do clean the screens, and nothing is in them. The magnet might have a little smooge.
You mentioned that you don't have time to change the oil once per month, but at 1200 miles that would be about every month and 1/2 for 2000 mile oci. But now talking about ultra sonic cleaning, that's super time consuming, and IMO nuts!!
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I'm probably going to stick with the aftermarket filters for now... yes, throwing away the filters is certainly faster than cleaning them (with or without a sonic cleaner). The paper filters have a habit of collapsing on the LC4 motor so I view the stainless steel aftermarket filters as preventative elements.
The oil screens rarely have any eye-visible metal.
I pulled the trigger on some maxima 10w-60 (which I'm guessing will shear like the motorex and the amsoil) as well as some redline 20w-60 which with any luck, will be more shear resistant. which to try first... hmmm
The oil screens rarely have any eye-visible metal.
I pulled the trigger on some maxima 10w-60 (which I'm guessing will shear like the motorex and the amsoil) as well as some redline 20w-60 which with any luck, will be more shear resistant. which to try first... hmmm
Originally Posted By: CT8
Try both!!! This is interesting .
It will indeed be interesting if there is no oil that holds visc within the manufacturer recommended specs...
Try both!!! This is interesting .
It will indeed be interesting if there is no oil that holds visc within the manufacturer recommended specs...
VR1 20/50. Our Harleys can't touch it over 5000 miles. I doubt your KTM will either. I dropped the MC specific oils for VR1 20/50 and have had no reason to regret it.
Here's the latest oil report on the Duke 690 with Amsoil 10W/60 after 1,000 miles
A lot of metal for a 1000 miles on a street motor,Unless you want to do thousand mile intervals.
Maybe you need to get away from synthetics and run a 20w50 dino oil , like a Valvoline 20w50.
Does well in my 500 ktm, and you may see better wear metals, as I do in comparison.
800 or 1000 miles is more in my range, you are still producing a lot of metal, that should have dissipated a long time ago.
if that doesn't reduce, then you just have a motor that's going to be a metal shedder.
But that 10w60 doesn't seem to be doing that great imo
Maybe you need to get away from synthetics and run a 20w50 dino oil , like a Valvoline 20w50.
Does well in my 500 ktm, and you may see better wear metals, as I do in comparison.
800 or 1000 miles is more in my range, you are still producing a lot of metal, that should have dissipated a long time ago.
if that doesn't reduce, then you just have a motor that's going to be a metal shedder.
But that 10w60 doesn't seem to be doing that great imo
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Originally Posted By: albertdi
Some questions I have are
1) how will the amsoil 10w-60 hold up after 1,000 miles and
2) will something like a 20w-60 hold viscosity after 3,000 miles or will it shear, shear, shear
Without question I think you will find the Redline 20-60 shears way less then the others, if you must use a __ /60 that is the way to go. Would love for you to try it and post the results.
I wouldnt get to stressed about the shearing, other then to choose an oil that will prove pretty sturdy. Your bike manufacturer knows the oil shears down/expects it to shear down and why the recommend the weight that they do.
Some questions I have are
1) how will the amsoil 10w-60 hold up after 1,000 miles and
2) will something like a 20w-60 hold viscosity after 3,000 miles or will it shear, shear, shear
Without question I think you will find the Redline 20-60 shears way less then the others, if you must use a __ /60 that is the way to go. Would love for you to try it and post the results.
I wouldnt get to stressed about the shearing, other then to choose an oil that will prove pretty sturdy. Your bike manufacturer knows the oil shears down/expects it to shear down and why the recommend the weight that they do.
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Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Is that roughly a 50% loss in viscosity for all three oils? That is a huge drop, but no one else seems to be concerned about that. Can somebody explain why that is not a problem or point out what I am missing?
I would assume the manufacturer of any shared sump bikes take into account how much the oil shears and base their recommendations on that.
Most likely any shared sump engine would be good with a straight weight 30 or 40 oil if cold starting wasnt a concern. Meaning I think, the manufacturers shoot for the oils to end up in that range anyway, no matter how high they start ex. 40/50/60.
Is that roughly a 50% loss in viscosity for all three oils? That is a huge drop, but no one else seems to be concerned about that. Can somebody explain why that is not a problem or point out what I am missing?
I would assume the manufacturer of any shared sump bikes take into account how much the oil shears and base their recommendations on that.
Most likely any shared sump engine would be good with a straight weight 30 or 40 oil if cold starting wasnt a concern. Meaning I think, the manufacturers shoot for the oils to end up in that range anyway, no matter how high they start ex. 40/50/60.
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Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
A lot of metal for a 1000 miles on a street motor,Unless you want to do thousand mile intervals.
Maybe you need to get away from synthetics and run a 20w50 dino oil , like a Valvoline 20w50.
Does well in my 500 ktm, and you may see better wear metals, as I do in comparison.
...
But that 10w60 doesn't seem to be doing that great imo
I agree, I think he would do better with conventional Valvoline 20w50 4 stroke motorcycle oil. Im a fan of that oil, I think way underrated, maybe people would think more highly of it it Valvoline increased the price to $10.00 a quart instead of $4.00 a quart in Walmart
)
I would love to see those results of the Valvoline $4 oil ($5 in autoparts stores) against these expensive oils, that for some reason, turn up with issues like this thread.
A lot of metal for a 1000 miles on a street motor,Unless you want to do thousand mile intervals.
Maybe you need to get away from synthetics and run a 20w50 dino oil , like a Valvoline 20w50.
Does well in my 500 ktm, and you may see better wear metals, as I do in comparison.
...
But that 10w60 doesn't seem to be doing that great imo
I agree, I think he would do better with conventional Valvoline 20w50 4 stroke motorcycle oil. Im a fan of that oil, I think way underrated, maybe people would think more highly of it it Valvoline increased the price to $10.00 a quart instead of $4.00 a quart in Walmart
)I would love to see those results of the Valvoline $4 oil ($5 in autoparts stores) against these expensive oils, that for some reason, turn up with issues like this thread.
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Is that roughly a 50% loss in viscosity for all three oils? That is a huge drop, but no one else seems to be concerned about that. Can somebody explain why that is not a problem or point out what I am missing?
I would assume the manufacturer of any shared sump bikes take into account how much the oil shears and base their recommendations on that.
Most likely any shared sump engine would be good with a straight weight 30 or 40 oil if cold starting wasnt a concern. Meaning I think, the manufacturers shoot for the oils to end up in that range anyway, no matter how high they start ex. 40/50/60.
If a 10W-60 shears out of the SAE 60 grade, it does not meet the JASO specifications it claims to meet. Some of the grades have some leeway, but above an SAE 50, they need to stay in grade.
If they were planning on SAE 30 or 40s to be used, they would specify those grades; since again, the specifications do not allow that much shear to occur.
By that logic, manufacturers that specify 10W-30 are really planning on the bike running on SAE 16? The idea is for an oil to have as little shear as possible. Shearing potential is not engineered into an oil in order to end up with a different grade.
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Is that roughly a 50% loss in viscosity for all three oils? That is a huge drop, but no one else seems to be concerned about that. Can somebody explain why that is not a problem or point out what I am missing?
I would assume the manufacturer of any shared sump bikes take into account how much the oil shears and base their recommendations on that.
Most likely any shared sump engine would be good with a straight weight 30 or 40 oil if cold starting wasnt a concern. Meaning I think, the manufacturers shoot for the oils to end up in that range anyway, no matter how high they start ex. 40/50/60.
If a 10W-60 shears out of the SAE 60 grade, it does not meet the JASO specifications it claims to meet. Some of the grades have some leeway, but above an SAE 50, they need to stay in grade.
If they were planning on SAE 30 or 40s to be used, they would specify those grades; since again, the specifications do not allow that much shear to occur.
By that logic, manufacturers that specify 10W-30 are really planning on the bike running on SAE 16? The idea is for an oil to have as little shear as possible. Shearing potential is not engineered into an oil in order to end up with a different grade.
Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
A lot of metal for a 1000 miles on a street motor,Unless you want to do thousand mile intervals.
Maybe you need to get away from synthetics and run a 20w50 dino oil , like a Valvoline 20w50.
Does well in my 500 ktm, and you may see better wear metals, as I do in comparison.
800 or 1000 miles is more in my range, you are still producing a lot of metal, that should have dissipated a long time ago.
if that doesn't reduce, then you just have a motor that's going to be a metal shedder.
But that 10w60 doesn't seem to be doing that great imo
I will add the valvoline to my list!
A lot of metal for a 1000 miles on a street motor,Unless you want to do thousand mile intervals.
Maybe you need to get away from synthetics and run a 20w50 dino oil , like a Valvoline 20w50.
Does well in my 500 ktm, and you may see better wear metals, as I do in comparison.
800 or 1000 miles is more in my range, you are still producing a lot of metal, that should have dissipated a long time ago.
if that doesn't reduce, then you just have a motor that's going to be a metal shedder.
But that 10w60 doesn't seem to be doing that great imo
I will add the valvoline to my list!
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: albertdi
Some questions I have are
1) how will the amsoil 10w-60 hold up after 1,000 miles and
2) will something like a 20w-60 hold viscosity after 3,000 miles or will it shear, shear, shear
Without question I think you will find the Redline 20-60 shears way less then the others, if you must use a __ /60 that is the way to go. Would love for you to try it and post the results.
I wouldnt get to stressed about the shearing, other then to choose an oil that will prove pretty sturdy. Your bike manufacturer knows the oil shears down/expects it to shear down and why the recommend the weight that they do.
I will be taking a sample of the redline 20w/60 with 1,000 miles on it this weekend. I installed a new cam, as well as 2 magnetic drain plugs (oil screens) and one magnet held by a circlip on the ignition cover. should be interesting...
Originally Posted By: albertdi
Some questions I have are
1) how will the amsoil 10w-60 hold up after 1,000 miles and
2) will something like a 20w-60 hold viscosity after 3,000 miles or will it shear, shear, shear
Without question I think you will find the Redline 20-60 shears way less then the others, if you must use a __ /60 that is the way to go. Would love for you to try it and post the results.
I wouldnt get to stressed about the shearing, other then to choose an oil that will prove pretty sturdy. Your bike manufacturer knows the oil shears down/expects it to shear down and why the recommend the weight that they do.
I will be taking a sample of the redline 20w/60 with 1,000 miles on it this weekend. I installed a new cam, as well as 2 magnetic drain plugs (oil screens) and one magnet held by a circlip on the ignition cover. should be interesting...
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Is that roughly a 50% loss in viscosity for all three oils? That is a huge drop, but no one else seems to be concerned about that. Can somebody explain why that is not a problem or point out what I am missing?
I would assume the manufacturer of any shared sump bikes take into account how much the oil shears and base their recommendations on that.
Most likely any shared sump engine would be good with a straight weight 30 or 40 oil if cold starting wasnt a concern. Meaning I think, the manufacturers shoot for the oils to end up in that range anyway, no matter how high they start ex. 40/50/60.
If a 10W-60 shears out of the SAE 60 grade, it does not meet the JASO specifications it claims to meet. Some of the grades have some leeway, but above an SAE 50, they need to stay in grade.
If they were planning on SAE 30 or 40s to be used, they would specify those grades; since again, the specifications do not allow that much shear to occur.
By that logic, manufacturers that specify 10W-30 are really planning on the bike running on SAE 16? The idea is for an oil to have as little shear as possible. Shearing potential is not engineered into an oil in order to end up with a different grade.
So how do we start our revolution?
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Is that roughly a 50% loss in viscosity for all three oils? That is a huge drop, but no one else seems to be concerned about that. Can somebody explain why that is not a problem or point out what I am missing?
I would assume the manufacturer of any shared sump bikes take into account how much the oil shears and base their recommendations on that.
Most likely any shared sump engine would be good with a straight weight 30 or 40 oil if cold starting wasnt a concern. Meaning I think, the manufacturers shoot for the oils to end up in that range anyway, no matter how high they start ex. 40/50/60.
If a 10W-60 shears out of the SAE 60 grade, it does not meet the JASO specifications it claims to meet. Some of the grades have some leeway, but above an SAE 50, they need to stay in grade.
If they were planning on SAE 30 or 40s to be used, they would specify those grades; since again, the specifications do not allow that much shear to occur.
By that logic, manufacturers that specify 10W-30 are really planning on the bike running on SAE 16? The idea is for an oil to have as little shear as possible. Shearing potential is not engineered into an oil in order to end up with a different grade.
So how do we start our revolution?
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Valvoline 20w50 mc oil can be had at auto zone on sale for $3.99, picked up 2 cases a couple weeks ago.
Ive got a uoa on my 500 posted here somewhere, it was when the motor was new about 1400 miles , with an 800 mile run on a low lead diet to about 2200 miles. It was actually an excellent wear count being such a newly broke in High performance motor.
Being Ive seen decent wear numbers from the 690 endures, it may not be something oil can fix on this particular motor, but worth a shot.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3732473/1
Not ran a uoa since but the oil condition improved a lot, so Id expect wear count to follow suit.
about 16,000 miles on original motor now, and this is a dirtbike race motor.
which should be the worst type of motor on metal shedding
Ive got a uoa on my 500 posted here somewhere, it was when the motor was new about 1400 miles , with an 800 mile run on a low lead diet to about 2200 miles. It was actually an excellent wear count being such a newly broke in High performance motor.
Being Ive seen decent wear numbers from the 690 endures, it may not be something oil can fix on this particular motor, but worth a shot.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3732473/1
Not ran a uoa since but the oil condition improved a lot, so Id expect wear count to follow suit.
about 16,000 miles on original motor now, and this is a dirtbike race motor.
which should be the worst type of motor on metal shedding
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Shear wise, the redline is probably the best, it will shear though, I ran it in my sport bike, 2200 miles on the reline 2 quarts 10w30 and I quart 20w50 for longevity, it held a 30 weight at the dump so it did shear but the wear count was excellent, the best Id seen on that motor.
Im more about the metal counts and flash though than shear. although they work together sometimes.
Im more about the metal counts and flash though than shear. although they work together sometimes.
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