Piston soak alternatives

[ChristianReske]

Hello,

i want to try a piston soak to clean and free the piston rings of my old Suzuki GSXR. Maybe it helps with the increasing oil consumption.
The problem is, here in Germany i dont have any MMO, Lucas or anything like this.

Are there any homebrew substitutes?

I have acces to Engine - Sludgecleaner, Fuel system cleaner, WD 40, ATF, Penetrating oil, Ovencleaner

and so on.

Any recommendation is welcome.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

I'd go with ATF. Or Diesel maybe?...

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: RusskiBoSS
I'd go with ATF. Or Diesel maybe?...


What would ATF do that an equivalent amount of motor oil wouldn't?

 

[Oro_O]

Three easy to get options for you -

A) Kerosene. MB also used to recommend it as a crankcase additive for cleaning (at idle for flushing and then drained, not under load/operating).

B) ATF. Particularly if you mix in some Acetone.

C) GM Top Engine Cleaner - should be available to you via any GM dealer.

All of these will work to one degree or another for this purpose.

 

[racin4ds]

Can you get seafoam or B12 Berryman? Those work great as well

 

[chad8]

Johnson / Evinrude engine tuner

 

[Cujet]

Short of using oven cleaner, or a caustic solution with methylene chloride, none of these concoctions will touch the carbon on the piston, dissolve ring land carbon or clean the cylinder head.

The "real" products that actually dissolve combustion chamber carbon during a "soak" are all very serious products. (such as Mopar combustion chamber cleaner) And, all of them are quite similar to liquid paint stripper. They will eat your nitrile gloves in a matter of minutes.

None of these "real" products should be used on an assembled engine, unless you can ensure the product will not get on the seals and head gasket. As they can dissolve the coatings on certain types of gaskets, such as multi layer, steel head gaskets.

Edit: Just another note to let you know (on certain cars) that often oil consumption is related to the piston's oil ring land drain holes becoming clogged. This happens when people use non synthetic oil and extended drain intervals.

 

[wsar10]

FWIW;
I have seen people use a home mixture that covers a few issues, mostly in the JEEP world.

they mix ATF and kerosene.... I cannot recall the "parts" but I think it was 2:1 (ATF:Kero). Guys have used this to break free rusty bolts and for piston soak and to generally clean sludge out of abused motors....

My personal experience(limited)is as follows;
I watched a guy run this in an old 440 big block Dodge motorhome several years back, what came out of that engine looked like cold tar !! He drained the oil and put this mixture in and left it idle for a few minutes, NEVER revving, then repeated the next day (letting the drain plug out all night) He salvaged the motor using this then ran a conventional oil for a small period of time, the used HM oil ever since. He has now restored the Motorhome and since rebuilt the motor, but he used it for 6-7 years before doing the rebuild.

 

[revvedup]

I am no expert on oil or solvents, but I am familiar with things like acetone, and gasoline. Did you know the active ingredient of MMO is methyl salicalate (spelling) the distillery/refinery version of oil of wintergreen? The OOW or MS attacks rust and other things. In WW2 it (MMO) was used in top end oilers of Allied aircraft that were using the new TEL for high octane. The "lead" would gunk up the valves and cause problems, and the MMO sucked into the carbs would keep the gunk buildup under control. Similarly, OOW was used back in the early days of steam engines in a similar way. When a steam engine was starting up or shutting down, some mix of oil with OOW was introduced into the "combustion" chamber of the steam engine piston. Just saying combustion, I know it is not in a steamer. The OOW had a way of keeping the cylinder bore from rusting, and also to break up any rust once it was started up again.

You say you have no MMO available. Maybe you can check around and get a small amount of OOW, which would be the chemical company version as MS methyl salicalate. MS is fine, no need for plant based wintergreen oil, if anyone even really makes it any more. I would use kerosene, or gasoline and engine oil mixed with just enough MS to give the mix a very slight odor. Maybe if 4oz of gasso mixed with 4oz motor oil and a tablespoon (15ml). Keep the MS away from skin, wear gloves. I would squirt just enough of that gasoline and oil and MS mix in on top of the piston and let it sit for at least 48 hours, adding a bit more if needed to keep things damp. I have used the MMO mixed 50/50 with gasoline for the same problem you have got, and it worked out just fine and dandy.

 

[Dyusik]

I have used gasoline mixed with ATF / PCMO to stop the Harley from smoking completely. 15 seconds at a traffic light and it looked like a chipped diesel drove by (blue of course, not black). Now nothing.

Put in about 20ml/cyl, crank with spark plugs out, put in another 30ml, go about my life.
Couple days later repeat, few days repeat.
It will all end up in in the sump, so do and OC. Make sure you fire up the bike with no one around, there will be plenty oil in exhaust at first, and it's going to stink. Knowing Germany, this can cause you issues.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: revvedup
I am no expert on oil or solvents, but I am familiar with things like acetone, and gasoline. Did you know the active ingredient of MMO is methyl salicalate


This is a principal reason I am now giving MMO a try on a ring issue of mine. I am familiar with the military uses of OOW and current wonder products with it (Track Lube, Frog Lube, et al). Plus the long hiustory of success with it by many people. I checked into straight purchase of it myself recently, but it was not cost-effective vs. buying MMO (best I could find in the US was about $30/500g before delivery). But this is a good succestion for the OP who can't access a formualtion with it easily.

 

[skyactiv]

One cylinder at a time, take the spark plug out and make sure the piston is at bottom dead cylinder, pour 15ml of acetone into the cylinder, let it soak for 25 minutes, reinstall the spark plug and run the bike at high speed on the Autobahn. Repeat with the remaining three cylinders. Report back on the results.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: revvedup
I am no expert on oil or solvents, but I am familiar with things like acetone, and gasoline. Did you know the active ingredient of MMO is methyl salicalate (spelling) the distillery/refinery version of oil of wintergreen? The OOW or MS attacks rust and other things. In WW2 it (MMO) was used in top end oilers of Allied aircraft that were using the new TEL for high octane. The "lead" would gunk up the valves and cause problems, and the MMO sucked into the carbs would keep the gunk buildup under control. Similarly, OOW was used back in the early days of steam engines in a similar way. When a steam engine was starting up or shutting down, some mix of oil with OOW was introduced into the "combustion" chamber of the steam engine piston. Just saying combustion, I know it is not in a steamer. The OOW had a way of keeping the cylinder bore from rusting, and also to break up any rust once it was started up again.

You say you have no MMO available. Maybe you can check around and get a small amount of OOW, which would be the chemical company version as MS methyl salicalate. MS is fine, no need for plant based wintergreen oil, if anyone even really makes it any more. I would use kerosene, or gasoline and engine oil mixed with just enough MS to give the mix a very slight odor. Maybe if 4oz of gasso mixed with 4oz motor oil and a tablespoon (15ml). Keep the MS away from skin, wear gloves. I would squirt just enough of that gasoline and oil and MS mix in on top of the piston and let it sit for at least 48 hours, adding a bit more if needed to keep things damp. I have used the MMO mixed 50/50 with gasoline for the same problem you have got, and it worked out just fine and dandy.


Not according to my most recent lab analysis.

That 'wintergreen' statement has been an internet myth for quite some time.

 

[Trav]

https://www.pro-tec-shop.de/de/motorinnenreinigung.html

 

[Pontual]

Piston soak for lower ring? Solvent flush acts right there.

 

[Trav]

Piston soak the cylinders with ProTec will get the top ring, put a can of it in the oil, start the engine and idle for 15-20 (liquid cooled bikes) min will get the lower. If its air cooled idle 5 min at a time letting it cool down between.
You can get the stuff at Hein Gericke or Louis.

 

[ChristianReske]

Thank you all! This forum is really amazing!
I read the whole thread thoroughly.

@ Cujet: Helpfull tip, but thats not the problem.
@ Djusik: Yes, smoking vehicles are a no-go here. I will do this Job at night.

First, GM Top engine cleaner, Mopar cleaner, Seafom or B12 berryman is not available here in Germany. The biggest GM dealer here told me that they cant order GM Top engine cleaner anymore. (?)

I found Oil of Wintergeen interessting an searched it, its Salicylsäuremethylester or Methylsalicylat here in Germany. Should be available. I will see.

I will try this:
First, soak the pistons with a mix of kerosene and acetone for a couple of hours.
Then drive the bike.
Next Step: Soak the pistons with the Pro Tec engnine cleaner while the engine is still hot.
Let it sit for several hours.
According to the instructions, pour the rest of the celaner into the enngine and let the bike idle, then change the oil.
In this case, i will exceptionally drain the oil cooler as well, to remove as much of the Engine Cleaner - Oil mix as possible.

Last step: New oil, filter, ride and see...

Thank you all for the precious hints and advice!

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: ChristianReske

I will try this:
First, soak the pistons with a mix of kerosene and acetone for a couple of hours.
Then drive the bike.
Next Step: Soak the pistons with the Pro Tec engnine cleaner while the engine is still hot.
Let it sit for several hours.
According to the instructions, pour the rest of the celaner into the engine...


Kero and acetone will not even touch hard carbon.

The Pro Tec contains:

Our engine flush contains: 40-45% Hydrotreated Light Petroleum Distillates (works well on hard-to clean organic contamination such as carbon deposits, heavy oil, grease, tar, and waxes), 20%-25% Steam-cracked Petroleum Distillates (works well on hard-to clean organic contamination such as carbon deposits, heavy oil, grease, tar, and waxes), 10-15% Solvent Naphtha (Solvent dissolves ethyl cellulose, polyvinyl butyral, many oils, alkaloids, gums, and natural resins), 10-15% Steam-cracked and Stripped Petroleum Distillates (complex hydrocarbon detergent cleaner), 10-15% Heavy Naphtha Petroleum Extracts Solvent (Solvent dissolves ethyl cellulose, polyvinyl butyral, many oils, alkaloids, gums, and natural resins), 1-5% Chlorparaffine C14-C28 (solvent complex mixture of chloride: polychlorinated n-alkanes biomolecules).

It's not likely to be very effective either.

 

[ChristianReske]

Cujet, its O.K. But what will work then?
Whats your recomendation if all other stuff dont work?

You mention methylene chloride. I know this stuff, ist a very good plastic glue. I can get a bottle without problems.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: Cujet


Kero and acetone will not even touch hard carbon.


Kerosene does not. But acetone sure does.

I washed out some valve covers with it in January. Acetone took off hard carbon with no effort. Nothing else I tried really would (Kero, gasoline, can't recall what else). The VCs had some hard, dried little nuggets of carbon in the very back where oil spray/splash is negligible and it abuts the firewall and gets hot. The acetone softened/dissolved and removed them. I have seen Berryman's B12 do the same on valves with hard carbon deposits.

Now whether you can practically add enough acetone to get a good enough concentration while mixed with oil or while leaking down, and for long enough before flashing off, etc. is another matter.