My local auto repair shop has said he can change my 2009 328i BMW for $60. He uses an oil he gets in bulk. He said is it fully synthetic and mets BMW standards. If this possible? A tire plus that I generally went to said the oil change would be $99.
Full synthetic vs. European Synthetic
- Thread starter Dodgerblue
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Tires Plus is a chain. Independent shops often charge less than chains.
My dealer (40 mins away) does a oil change (7qts) with bmw oil for $69. Youre probably okay
Originally Posted By: Dodgerblue
My local auto repair shop has said he can change my 2009 328i BMW for $60. He uses an oil he gets in bulk. He said is it fully synthetic and mets BMW standards. If this possible? A tire plus that I generally went to said the oil change would be $99.
If they are using BMW-approved oils, they are indeed synthetic.
The "European" definition is getting blurry versus what we have in the states. I wouldn't get too hung up on it. Anything on the BMW-approved list will be a great oil.
My local auto repair shop has said he can change my 2009 328i BMW for $60. He uses an oil he gets in bulk. He said is it fully synthetic and mets BMW standards. If this possible? A tire plus that I generally went to said the oil change would be $99.
If they are using BMW-approved oils, they are indeed synthetic.
The "European" definition is getting blurry versus what we have in the states. I wouldn't get too hung up on it. Anything on the BMW-approved list will be a great oil.
Originally Posted By: Dodgerblue
My local auto repair shop has said he can change my 2009 328i BMW for $60. He uses an oil he gets in bulk. He said is it fully synthetic and mets BMW standards. If this possible? A tire plus that I generally went to said the oil change would be $99.
If it meets BMW LL-01 then you are good.
My local auto repair shop has said he can change my 2009 328i BMW for $60. He uses an oil he gets in bulk. He said is it fully synthetic and mets BMW standards. If this possible? A tire plus that I generally went to said the oil change would be $99.
If it meets BMW LL-01 then you are good.
The question is, what is his bulk oil and how can he prove what it is?
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
The question is, what is his bulk oil and how can he prove what it is?
That is very good question!
The question is, what is his bulk oil and how can he prove what it is?
That is very good question!
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
The question is, what is his bulk oil and how can he prove what it is?
+1
The question is, what is his bulk oil and how can he prove what it is?
+1
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Ask him to see a product data sheet on the bulk oil. Look for a BMW approval, like LL-01 or LL-04.
+1
Ask him to see a product data sheet on the bulk oil. Look for a BMW approval, like LL-01 or LL-04.
+1
You dont necessarily have to use ll01 or 04 if you dont want to do 15k oci. Am a3/b3 would be fine for 7500 or such. Just make sure its fully synthetic. In warranty yes follow the manual, but outside warranty you have other options
hope they are telling the truth about the oil...Sometimes the dealer has good deals also
Originally Posted By: Dodgerblue
My local auto repair shop has said he can change my 2009 328i BMW for $60. He uses an oil he gets in bulk. He said is it fully synthetic and mets BMW standards. If this possible? A tire plus that I generally went to said the oil change would be $99.
If I were you I would buy sufficient quantity of Castrol 0W40 in Wal mart, OEM filter and change it on your own. If you are not DIY, then do same, and take it to that shop and ask them how much they would charge labor to change oil.
My local auto repair shop has said he can change my 2009 328i BMW for $60. He uses an oil he gets in bulk. He said is it fully synthetic and mets BMW standards. If this possible? A tire plus that I generally went to said the oil change would be $99.
If I were you I would buy sufficient quantity of Castrol 0W40 in Wal mart, OEM filter and change it on your own. If you are not DIY, then do same, and take it to that shop and ask them how much they would charge labor to change oil.
Originally Posted By: rickmeseke
You dont necessarily have to use ll01 or 04 if you dont want to do 15k oci. Am a3/b3 would be fine for 7500 or such. Just make sure its fully synthetic. In warranty yes follow the manual, but outside warranty you have other options
This is in essence quite true.
The original "BMW Special Oils" specification were largely based on the early A3/B3 (or A3/B4) standard, and by the time LL-98 and -01 came out was only really suitable for cars running the older 7500 mile interval anyway (i.e. early E36's) or the later 9320 interval.
That said, if an LL-01 is cheaper than say something with "just" an A3/B4 rating, you might as well spring for it and know you've got a very stout oil in your engine. With these early standards, each subsequent one was a direct replacement of the last and could be used safely. After LL-01 its gotten more complex with thinner oils, lower SAPS and that sort of thing.
You dont necessarily have to use ll01 or 04 if you dont want to do 15k oci. Am a3/b3 would be fine for 7500 or such. Just make sure its fully synthetic. In warranty yes follow the manual, but outside warranty you have other options
This is in essence quite true.
The original "BMW Special Oils" specification were largely based on the early A3/B3 (or A3/B4) standard, and by the time LL-98 and -01 came out was only really suitable for cars running the older 7500 mile interval anyway (i.e. early E36's) or the later 9320 interval.
That said, if an LL-01 is cheaper than say something with "just" an A3/B4 rating, you might as well spring for it and know you've got a very stout oil in your engine. With these early standards, each subsequent one was a direct replacement of the last and could be used safely. After LL-01 its gotten more complex with thinner oils, lower SAPS and that sort of thing.
You can say the same thing vise versa, if autozone clears out a3b3 for$2 qt you can be comfortable in using it. Or if you,like me, have a leak and dont want to fix it, im using Mobil1 15w50 which is a3b3, and i feel 100% comfortable using it. I understand your argument but hes not limited to LL oils(or his mechanic)
Quote:
That said, if an LL-01 is cheaper than say something with "just" an A3/B4 rating, you might as well spring for it and know you've got a very stout oil in your engine.
I have yet to come across an oil that meets ll-01 but does not carry acea a3/b4 rating.
That said, if an LL-01 is cheaper than say something with "just" an A3/B4 rating, you might as well spring for it and know you've got a very stout oil in your engine.
I have yet to come across an oil that meets ll-01 but does not carry acea a3/b4 rating.
Originally Posted By: B320i
Originally Posted By: rickmeseke
You dont necessarily have to use ll01 or 04 if you dont want to do 15k oci. Am a3/b3 would be fine for 7500 or such. Just make sure its fully synthetic. In warranty yes follow the manual, but outside warranty you have other options
This is in essence quite true.
The original "BMW Special Oils" specification were largely based on the early A3/B3 (or A3/B4) standard, and by the time LL-98 and -01 came out was only really suitable for cars running the older 7500 mile interval anyway (i.e. early E36's) or the later 9320 interval.
That said, if an LL-01 is cheaper than say something with "just" an A3/B4 rating, you might as well spring for it and know you've got a very stout oil in your engine. With these early standards, each subsequent one was a direct replacement of the last and could be used safely. After LL-01 its gotten more complex with thinner oils, lower SAPS and that sort of thing.
I think LL-01 has certain requirement when it comes to VANOS.
Originally Posted By: rickmeseke
You dont necessarily have to use ll01 or 04 if you dont want to do 15k oci. Am a3/b3 would be fine for 7500 or such. Just make sure its fully synthetic. In warranty yes follow the manual, but outside warranty you have other options
This is in essence quite true.
The original "BMW Special Oils" specification were largely based on the early A3/B3 (or A3/B4) standard, and by the time LL-98 and -01 came out was only really suitable for cars running the older 7500 mile interval anyway (i.e. early E36's) or the later 9320 interval.
That said, if an LL-01 is cheaper than say something with "just" an A3/B4 rating, you might as well spring for it and know you've got a very stout oil in your engine. With these early standards, each subsequent one was a direct replacement of the last and could be used safely. After LL-01 its gotten more complex with thinner oils, lower SAPS and that sort of thing.
I think LL-01 has certain requirement when it comes to VANOS.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I think LL-01 has certain requirement when it comes to VANOS.
I'd be more inclined to say it meets the requirements for long drain and viscosity.
For example, a situation where I'd recommend LL oils is if you chose to use 5w30. If I walked into a shop and bought M1 5w30, then I would have a "Resource Conserving" oil, and thus something not compatible with my car. (Look around the BMW forums and you'll see people that did this and are concerned that their engine is making ticking noises)
If I had bought a 5w30 with the LL rating, then the oil is thick enough.
Now, the flip side of the coin is using Shell Rotella 5w40. Definitely thick enough - and 5w40 was typically an LL98 oil "back in the day." We know from from UOA its a good oil, so you can probably use it at a conservative interval quite safely.
End of the day, I see it this way:
BMW suggests their LL rated oils because they are designed to meet all the requirements of not only the engine, but servicing too. Maybe there are some boutiques that are better - however with this rating, you're practically guaranteed the oil will work for most everyday usage scenarios envisioned by BMW.
I also suspect there is more to the testing process and what requirements than we are aware of, too.
I think LL-01 has certain requirement when it comes to VANOS.
I'd be more inclined to say it meets the requirements for long drain and viscosity.
For example, a situation where I'd recommend LL oils is if you chose to use 5w30. If I walked into a shop and bought M1 5w30, then I would have a "Resource Conserving" oil, and thus something not compatible with my car. (Look around the BMW forums and you'll see people that did this and are concerned that their engine is making ticking noises)
If I had bought a 5w30 with the LL rating, then the oil is thick enough.
Now, the flip side of the coin is using Shell Rotella 5w40. Definitely thick enough - and 5w40 was typically an LL98 oil "back in the day." We know from from UOA its a good oil, so you can probably use it at a conservative interval quite safely.
End of the day, I see it this way:
BMW suggests their LL rated oils because they are designed to meet all the requirements of not only the engine, but servicing too. Maybe there are some boutiques that are better - however with this rating, you're practically guaranteed the oil will work for most everyday usage scenarios envisioned by BMW.
I also suspect there is more to the testing process and what requirements than we are aware of, too.
Originally Posted By: B320i
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I think LL-01 has certain requirement when it comes to VANOS.
I'd be more inclined to say it meets the requirements for long drain and viscosity.
For example, a situation where I'd recommend LL oils is if you chose to use 5w30. If I walked into a shop and bought M1 5w30, then I would have a "Resource Conserving" oil, and thus something not compatible with my car. (Look around the BMW forums and you'll see people that did this and are concerned that their engine is making ticking noises)
If I had bought a 5w30 with the LL rating, then the oil is thick enough.
Now, the flip side of the coin is using Shell Rotella 5w40. Definitely thick enough - and 5w40 was typically an LL98 oil "back in the day." We know from from UOA its a good oil, so you can probably use it at a conservative interval quite safely.
End of the day, I see it this way:
BMW suggests their LL rated oils because they are designed to meet all the requirements of not only the engine, but servicing too. Maybe there are some boutiques that are better - however with this rating, you're practically guaranteed the oil will work for most everyday usage scenarios envisioned by BMW.
I also suspect there is more to the testing process and what requirements than we are aware of, too.
I would say there is much more to that then just stay in grade.
My friend used M1 5W30 "full" synthetic in his Audi A4 1.8T, and 80K later had a sludge bomb, although he chnaged oil every 5K.
If you ask me I would not use even LL-01 unless oil meets MB 2295 also. Same like in my oil burner, I use oil that meets both LL-04 and MB 229.51 and to preserve DPF oil that has VW 504.00/507.00 spec. since that spec is more stricter on SAPS then BMW or MB.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I think LL-01 has certain requirement when it comes to VANOS.
I'd be more inclined to say it meets the requirements for long drain and viscosity.
For example, a situation where I'd recommend LL oils is if you chose to use 5w30. If I walked into a shop and bought M1 5w30, then I would have a "Resource Conserving" oil, and thus something not compatible with my car. (Look around the BMW forums and you'll see people that did this and are concerned that their engine is making ticking noises)
If I had bought a 5w30 with the LL rating, then the oil is thick enough.
Now, the flip side of the coin is using Shell Rotella 5w40. Definitely thick enough - and 5w40 was typically an LL98 oil "back in the day." We know from from UOA its a good oil, so you can probably use it at a conservative interval quite safely.
End of the day, I see it this way:
BMW suggests their LL rated oils because they are designed to meet all the requirements of not only the engine, but servicing too. Maybe there are some boutiques that are better - however with this rating, you're practically guaranteed the oil will work for most everyday usage scenarios envisioned by BMW.
I also suspect there is more to the testing process and what requirements than we are aware of, too.
I would say there is much more to that then just stay in grade.
My friend used M1 5W30 "full" synthetic in his Audi A4 1.8T, and 80K later had a sludge bomb, although he chnaged oil every 5K.
If you ask me I would not use even LL-01 unless oil meets MB 2295 also. Same like in my oil burner, I use oil that meets both LL-04 and MB 229.51 and to preserve DPF oil that has VW 504.00/507.00 spec. since that spec is more stricter on SAPS then BMW or MB.
Thank you for all the replies. I think what this mechanic uses is probably OK. It is what he uses in his own BMW. The car purrs like a kitten. BMW just scares me since they are a bit fragile.
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