Used car oil concern

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^ that's a terrible thought thinking of it oxidizing back up to a 30...

tarry chunks anyone?
 
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What sticks out to me besides the TA 5w-30 shearing, is that the viscosity on both Napa 5w-20's is well above what Valvoline/Napa would spec them at (ie 8.7). The Subaru 5w-20 visc. up at 9.5 would seem like an oil that has been thickening up and in need of replacement. Wouldn't a Valvoline/Napa synthetic 5w-20 grade oil with plenty of life left have a viscosity in the 8.0-8.7 range rather than 9.0-9.5? 20 grades typically range in the mid-8's, rather than the 9's.
 
Originally Posted By: meborder
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
+ 8 Change it. I don't buy into 30 grade oil shearing to a 20 grade. That seems to be a rumor that just won't die here. On occasion a 30 grade oil might shear to a 20 grade, but I'd say that is the exception and not the norm. The 30 grade oils that did shear probably had some underlying factor contributing, like maybe fuel dilution?


here's one in my expedition:
my 5w30 sheared more in 5,000 summer highway miles than the Napa Syn 5w20 did in 6,000+ of winter idling and towing

Trop Artic 5W-30, 5KOCI, 2006 Expeditition, 125K

Code:


OIL Trop 5w30 NAPA 5w20

Artic Synthetic

SynBlend



MILES IN USE 4,989 6,447

MILES 125,086 114,429

SAMPLE TAKEN 10/23/14 06/01/14





Metals (ppm)

IRON 10 45

CHROMIUM
LEAD
COPPER 1 2

TIN
ALUMINUM 4 22

NICKEL
SILVER
TITANIUM
VANADIUM



Contaminants (ppm)

SILICON 8 10

SODIUM 17 278

POTASSIUM


Additives (ppm)

MAGNESIUM 14 118

CALCIUM 2044 1792

BARIUM
PHOSPHORUS 690 627

ZINC 761 730

MOLYBDENUM 15 6

BORON 70 9



Contaminants

WATER
Coolant No No



Physical Tests

Visc (cSt 100C) 8.9 9.0



TBN (mgKOH/g) 2.6 2.5


now, if I had waited long enough, it would have oxidized back up to the 30 spec.

viscosity is a moving target.

now the napa Syn in the Subaru didn't shear out of grade in 5500 miles:

2002 Subaru Outback H6

Code:


OIL NAPA 5w20

Synthetic





MILES IN USE 5,500

MILES 115,500

SAMPLE TAKEN 6/01/14





Metals (ppm)

IRON 6

CHROMIUM
LEAD
COPPER 1

TIN
ALUMINUM 2

NICKEL
SILVER
TITANIUM
VANADIUM



Contaminants (ppm)

SILICON 4

SODIUM 217

POTASSIUM 6



Additives (ppm)

MAGNESIUM
CALCIUM 1832

BARIUM
PHOSPHORUS 554

ZINC 661

MOLYBDENUM 4

BORON 20



Contaminants

WATER
Coolant No No



Physical Tests

Visc (cSt 100C) 9.5



TBN (mgKOH/g) 2.3



to the question at hand ... I'd probably change it, just for piece of mind. that being said, I doubt any harm will come from leaving it.


Too bad you didn't use the 20 grade during the summer to see how well it would have held up, and had it to base a comparison under similar conditions.
 
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
What sticks out to me besides the TA 5w-30 shearing, is that the viscosity on both Napa 5w-20's is well above what Valvoline/Napa would spec them at (ie 8.7). The Subaru 5w-20 visc. up at 9.5 would seem like an oil that has been thickening up and in need of replacement. Wouldn't a Valvoline/Napa synthetic 5w-20 grade oil with plenty of life left have a viscosity in the 8.0-8.7 range rather than 9.0-9.5? 20 grades typically range in the mid-8's, rather than the 9's.


The Napa synthetic in the Subaru is 5w30, not 5w20.
 
Originally Posted By: meborder
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
What sticks out to me besides the TA 5w-30 shearing, is that the viscosity on both Napa 5w-20's is well above what Valvoline/Napa would spec them at (ie 8.7). The Subaru 5w-20 visc. up at 9.5 would seem like an oil that has been thickening up and in need of replacement. Wouldn't a Valvoline/Napa synthetic 5w-20 grade oil with plenty of life left have a viscosity in the 8.0-8.7 range rather than 9.0-9.5? 20 grades typically range in the mid-8's, rather than the 9's.


The Napa synthetic in the Subaru is 5w30, not 5w20.


That's not what the oil analysis says.
 
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: meborder
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
What sticks out to me besides the TA 5w-30 shearing, is that the viscosity on both Napa 5w-20's is well above what Valvoline/Napa would spec them at (ie 8.7). The Subaru 5w-20 visc. up at 9.5 would seem like an oil that has been thickening up and in need of replacement. Wouldn't a Valvoline/Napa synthetic 5w-20 grade oil with plenty of life left have a viscosity in the 8.0-8.7 range rather than 9.0-9.5? 20 grades typically range in the mid-8's, rather than the 9's.

The Napa synthetic in the Subaru is 5w30, not 5w20.


That's not what the oil analysis says.


Typo... Sorry. It was 5w30, I promise. I'll fix my code file. My bad
 
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Jeez, you would think this was rocket science, oil analysis, shearing, viscosity
lol.gif
dump the oil and put your favorite 5w30 and filter and live happily ever after.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
+ 8 Change it. I don't buy into 30 grade oil shearing to a 20 grade. That seems to be a rumor that just won't die here. On occasion a 30 grade oil might shear to a 20 grade, but I'd say that is the exception and not the norm. The 30 grade oils that did shear probably had some underlying factor contributing, like maybe fuel dilution?

Yep another BITOG myth...

May have been true 15 years ago, definatly 25 years ago, not now...

Originally Posted By: Malo83
Jeez, you would think this was rocket science, oil analysis, shearing, viscosity
lol.gif
dump the oil and put your favorite 5w30 and filter and live happily ever after.


Correct answer...
 
Originally Posted By: Malo83
Jeez, you would think this was rocket science, oil analysis, shearing, viscosity
lol.gif
dump the oil and put your favorite 5w30 and filter and live happily ever after.


....and you'd think it cost a rocket....
 
Forgot to update this, my apologies.

Drained out whatever was in it, filled with 5 quarts of 5w30 Quaker State Advanced Durability, 1 quart of 5w30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, and a full bottle of MOS2. I left the Pronto oil filter on as it was only 500 miles old.
 
I have always looked into the fluids of any used car I purchased and changed any that seemed sketchy to me. To put spec oil in should be under $25 if you do it yourself.
 
Change it now to get the STP they put in it to cover up the oil burning and fog of blue smoke on start up. I have been burnt by that by an actual ford dealership not a used car lot.

It might not have a problem but it wouldn't be the first case of a dealer having no morals.
 
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Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Thanks for the update. Was it still clear like when you drained it?


Darker than I expected, but the car looks like it may have missed an oil change or two. I'll probably be doing a few shorter 3-5K OCI's with PYB or PHM and then go to a longer OCI with QSUD or some such.
 
Originally Posted By: Hollow
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Thanks for the update. Was it still clear like when you drained it?


Darker than I expected, but the car looks like it may have missed an oil change or two. I'll probably be doing a few shorter 3-5K OCI's with PYB or PHM and then go to a longer OCI with QSUD or some such.


Sounds like a few shorter OCI's would be good prevention. Used vehicles often have dirty engines I find.

Last year for the daughter we picked up a 2007 Dodge Dakota with the 3.7L V6 but only 62K miles with very dark oil that had been changed 200 miles earlier per the Chevy dealership. They had put xW-30 in it they said. We went back to 5W-20 after about 500 miles and now after about 15K miles of 3K mile changes it is staying more clear longer.

For the son it was a 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 with the old 5.9L gas engine with 110K miles. It still is getting dirty faster than I would like but the oil usage has really declined for some reason. We plan to keep both on 3K mile OCI's for a while.

Last month for myself I picked up a 2006 Ford 500 car with the 3.0L V6. It was the wife of a Ford car salesman with Ford dealership oil changes every 5K per the retired Ford salesman himself. The engine looked very clean when looking down the oil fill opening with just a little orange/brown stain on the aluminum. I just checked this afternoon and that stain seems to be going away. It is still Ford serviced with MC oil and filter per Ford specs but it has Archoil AR9100 in it for the last 3K miles. We changed it at 4K miles (after adding 500 miles) and have 2500 miles on this new OCI and the oil is still clear.

My take away at age 65 on my first 'old used car' that has been dealer serviced since day one is doing OCI by the factory specs leads to very clean engines 10 years/110K miles down the road.
smile.gif


While I do not think the AR9100 was really needed I just want to see what it would do on a 'clean' engine. It did clean up the 4.6L in the 2000 Towncar even more but we got it 100K miles/10 years ago with a very dirty 70K mile engine. It was fairly clean two years ago when we started using AR6100 in all of our gas/diesel engine but looks brighter through the oil filler hole.

Without fail we have been able to internally clean up some very dirty engines with 3K mile OCI's just using factory spec motor oil.

The 1989 Ford 429 in the F700 was the dirtiest engine we have every brought home. I expect the oil filter had gone into full bypass mode. Rotella T6 5W-40 is what we use in it. It does not get used very much but after about 3 filter only changes the oil cleared up in the first 1000 miles. After 4 years we changed it again because it was black again.

I grew up as a poor farm kid but Dad was the first person that I knew to use high detergent oil (Standard Supreme 10W-30) in a new 1962 Ford 801 Power Master tractor. We rebuilt it a couple times over the years due to high hours but it NEVER was dirty on the inside. There was a discussion at the dealership if high detergent oil would harm the new tractor engine but in the end they said it was OK so that was all that tractor saw for the next 30 years. The oil and filter was changed every 100 hours where it needed it or not.
smile.gif
 
some of those engines have issues maybe change it to the 5w30 after 500 miles. Keep an eye on the coolant some of those engines had head gasket issues. Dont worry too much ab out the noise they are noisy engines ..
 
whats wrong with plain old motor oil? The oil industry spends millions to find the best oil additives and then people decide to put all kinds of additives in.. If your engine runs good sometimes its a good idea not to experiment. If there is an issue then maybe try something else.
 
Originally Posted By: meborder


here's one in my expedition:
my 5w30 sheared more in 5,000 summer highway miles than the Napa Syn 5w20 did in 6,000+ of winter idling and towing

Trop Artic 5W-30, 5KOCI, 2006 Expeditition, 125K

Code:


OIL Trop 5w30 NAPA 5w20

Artic Synthetic

SynBlend



MILES IN USE 4,989 6,447

MILES 125,086 114,429

SAMPLE TAKEN 10/23/14 06/01/14





Metals (ppm)

IRON 10 45

CHROMIUM
LEAD
COPPER 1 2

TIN
ALUMINUM 4 22

NICKEL
SILVER
TITANIUM
VANADIUM



Contaminants (ppm)

SILICON 8 10

SODIUM 17 278

POTASSIUM


Additives (ppm)

MAGNESIUM 14 118

CALCIUM 2044 1792

BARIUM
PHOSPHORUS 690 627

ZINC 761 730

MOLYBDENUM 15 6

BORON 70 9



Contaminants

WATER
Coolant No No



Physical Tests

Visc (cSt 100C) 8.9 9.0



TBN (mgKOH/g) 2.6 2.5


now, if I had waited long enough, it would have oxidized back up to the 30 spec.

...



Wow there is a LOT more Iron and Aluminum with the 5w20 than with the 5w30! Do you have a UOA from summer highway with the -20 or a winter towing with the -30?
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
whats wrong with plain old motor oil? The oil industry spends millions to find the best oil additives and then people decide to put all kinds of additives in.. If your engine runs good sometimes its a good idea not to experiment. If there is an issue then maybe try something else.


crazyoildude there is nothing wrong with most any OEM spec'ed products. Company like Amsoil and others pushing NON OEM products just gets some of us to wondering and worrying so we go for the additives.
smile.gif
 
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