Sludge from coolant or from cleaning agents?

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I have a 2000 GMC Sierra 1500 with the 4.8 V8 with 204K miles.

Background (long - sorry): I bought the truck at 184K miles in 2011. I didn't get a service history but the engine ran fine and the oil looked OK. It has had regular oil changes since I got it. It is a limited use vehicle now so it only gets an oil change about one a year as it is lucky to get 3000 miles put on it in that time. About a year ago, I started to get noisy lifters so I added a pint of MMO about 500 miles before the next oil change. The lifters got somewhat better but were still intermittently noisy. Oil pressure seemed normal based on the gauge reading. When I pulled the oil plug after 500 miles, nothing came out at first so I pushed a screwdriver in and several chunks of soft, almost black sludge came out before the oil started flowing. Inside the filter I could see an inch or so of sludge at the bottom of the center tube.

I thought that the MMO may have done some cleaning and caused the sludge to show up in the pan and filter so I didn't give it much thought. I refilled the engine with SuperTech Full Synthetic 10W30 and used my usual AC PF61 non-ecore filter. After about 2500 miles the lifter noise came back so this time I added some Rislone concentrate and planned to change it in 500 miles. The Rislone really helped the lifter noise.

This week, 500 miles had passed since I added the Rislone (about 3000 miles total on this oil) so I changed the oil. I made sure the engine was hot when I pulled the plug. Clumps of sludge came out again and this time the filter was completely filled with sludge! The oil had a reddish tint to it - could that be from the Rislone or something else? The sludge is very dark brown (almost black) and is soft. Could this be sludge loosened up from the Rislone - or is this likely to be coolant contamination? I had always thought that these "LS" engines were pretty immune to internal coolant leaks as they have a dry intake. Some have reported cracked heads on these but that was listed as starting in 2001 in a GM service bulletin that I saw online.

The PCV valve is working and I don't have the typical light brown "chocolate milk" on the inside of the oil cap that a blown headgasket or cracked head might cause. The engine has been "using" coolant over the past year but I chalked this up to a small leak that I can smell when the engine is hot but haven't been able to track down.

Does this sound like an internal coolant leak? Thanks for any advice.

Andrew S.
 
It has been using coolant but I chalked it up to a leak that I can smell but haven't tracked down. The reddish tint to the oil has me worried since this motor has Dex-cool in it.

There is no evidence of oil in the coolant/radiator.

I always thought that an internal coolant leak would cause "chocolate milk" light brown sludge and cloudy oil. This sludge is almost black and the oil is not cloudy. When I was draining it I could see through it and it had a reddish tint that I hope was just from the Rislone.
 
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It could be as said above a cracked head, or a bad head gasket.

But you're waiting way too long for oil changes for a vehicle with clumps coming out.

Change at the most every 500 miles until it starts coming out pretty clean. Use some cheap oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
It could be as said above a cracked head, or a bad head gasket.

But you're waiting way too long for oil changes for a vehicle with clumps coming out.

Change at the most every 500 miles until it starts coming out pretty clean. Use some cheap oil.


I agree - and I would do that but I wish I knew if this sludge was coming from coolant contamination. I am now leaning toward dumping this truck due to this and other issues that need attention (rusted rockers being the worst). The last two oil changes were the only ones with the sludge issue. If I had seen "chocolate milk" then coolant contamination would be obvious. In this case, the cause is not as obvious as the sludge is dark and the oil is not cloudy.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
It could be as said above a cracked head, or a bad head gasket.

But you're waiting way too long for oil changes for a vehicle with clumps coming out.

Change at the most every 500 miles until it starts coming out pretty clean. Use some cheap oil.


I agree. Some cheap conventional would work well. Oversized filter if one is available.
 
Oil needs to be tested for coolant.

Coolant needs to be tested for hydrocarbons.

If both pass, then you need some 200 mile OCI's with cheap HDEO until this trash starts clearing up.
 
Unfortunately I think the non-ecore AC PF61 is about as big a filter as you can get for this engine.

The thermostat is working fine and the engine is not overheating either.

I agree with the multiple short OCI to clean things up. My overall trouble is that I am not sure that I will be keeping the truck at this point. It is going to fail PA inspection for the rusty rockers and rear wheel arches at the end of the month. It also needs a bunch of other work (heater blend door issue, power steering leak - possibly the rack) that have me thinking it is time to sell and move on rather than trying to patch things up. It will help me to make my decision if I can quickly confirm whether it is coolant in the oil. I am not sure if there is a way to do that other than sending oil away for an analysis.
 
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By the sounds of it, it's very likely coolant ingestion. When people think coolant, they think oil level way over full and a milkshake appearance. Well it's not always like that. It doesn't take much coolant at all to make oil sludge up, I've seen it too many times- and it won't turn into a shake until there is A LOT of coolant present.

As was already mentioned, the heads crack around the head bolt pocket. In some cases you can even see the coolant weeping out. Maybe pull the rocker covers and pressure test the cooling system.

Not all heads were problem prone, just the heads GM outsourced to Castech (nicknamed Crack-tech), and only in a certain time frame.
 
Since things seem to be pointing toward coolant in the oil I will try to check the heads for obvious cracks. It does have the 706 heads which are a potential problem at least from 2001 up if they were made by Castech based on what I read elsewhere. Not sure if 2000 MY is officially included with the problem.
 
I still recommend testing the fluids.Even if you could confirm with 100% certainty that the heads have no cracks, that only eliminates one of the many potential causes for contamination.

Testing the fluids will tell you whether or not it is happening at all.
 
If all goes well, I am pulling the valve covers on Saturday. If there is a bunch of fresh sludge on either side then I likely have my answer. The passenger side looked relatively OK from what I could through the oil fill hole. The driver's side is impossible to see through the PCV valve hole because of the baffle that is there. I am also going to rent a cooling system pressure tester to hopefully track down the coolant leak. I will pressure test it with the valve covers off to see if any obvious cracks exist that are leaking coolant into the oil.

I agree that if I don't find the cause this way, then a fluid analysis will be needed to get to the bottom of what is going on (if I decide to keep the truck at this point based on all of the other work that it needs).

I will report back - thanks for all of the advice.

Andrew S.
 
Well, the jury is in. I pulled the valve covers off yesterday and found a dirty engine. The soft, tar-like sludge as well as some harder, carbon-like sludge was on both heads, rocker arms and valve covers. The driver's side also had a small amount of yellowish sludge on the valve cover.

I rented a cooling system pressure tester and pressurized the system and found two leaks: the water pump seems to be leaking where it meets the block. That would have been something that I could deal with. Unfortunately, the driver's side head is leaking coolant through a crack that is near the center head bolt (under the valve cover) which of course is mixing with the oil in the crankcase and creating the sludge that had plugged the filter and came out of the oil pan in clumps.

Due to the list of other problems that this truck has (such as rotted rocker panels which fail inspection, bad knock sensors, A/C refrigerant leak (bad line), heater blend door issue and power steering leaks from the cooler and the rack), I will not be repairing it. Thanks for all of the advice that I have received on this thread.

Andrew S.
 
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