Hi, Good morning. I am help out a young friend who is just starting in dirt oval track racing. He will be using a GM 602 crate engine in a NE style dirt modified. My question is this, what would be a good choice of engine oil to use in this enviroment, i.e.; 6200 max rpms 210' water temp, track sizes ranging from tight 1/4 miles to big long straightaways 5/8 miles. Years ago when I raced this class we ran JG XP3 but that is too costly for this budget. I am look for something would offer good protection, but not be too expensive to change out every 10 nights of racing. I am considering something like M1 10w30HM or maybe a HDEO like Rotella 15w40 or Delvac ESP 5w40. I want it to be something that is easy to find, not some boutique oil that has to be ordered on online everytime. You know go to NAPA or Walmat. I am also looking at gear oils, because we will be running different size tracks and changing gears often, ( it is a Winters QC rearend) I am considering something from either Mobil or Valvoline in the 75w90 weight. I have researched this on all the crate message boards and spoken to all of my friends who run this class and everybody has their own opinions and favorites. So I am looking for insight here, questions, comments, concerns?
GM 602 crate racing on a budget.
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Valvoline also make "Racing oils" thats pretty reasonably priced. What does the mfgr of ther rear end recommend? If you can get the specs from the mfgr, you can cross reference them with other oils according to price and pick one. If most of the guys racing aren't having rear end problems, then it would seem you don't need anything exotic to get the job done.,,,
I have looked at the Valvoline VR1 oils and have used them in the past. They are just not readily available around here for some reason. Winters recomends a good GL5 75w90 gear oil like M1 75w90ls.
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Originally Posted By: Trackrat73
Years ago when I raced this class we ran JG XP3 but that is too costly for this budget. I am look for something would offer good protection, but not be too expensive to change out every 10 nights of racing.
While I can understand the need to maintain a budget, it seems strange to race an engine like a 602 and want to cheap out on the oil. With that said, what is the range of oil temperature the engine sees when racing? This would be a better indicator of what type of oil to use. What about adding an oil cooler to it or does it have one? I am guessing that a synthetic might be needed depending on the oil temps.
For the axle, temperatures would help here too and would be a good way to know what you need. I would err on the side of caution if no other data is available to make an informed decision and use a synthetic oil and would consider a 75W-110 (which is the viscosity that 75W-90 used to be before the J300 charts were updated).
Years ago when I raced this class we ran JG XP3 but that is too costly for this budget. I am look for something would offer good protection, but not be too expensive to change out every 10 nights of racing.
While I can understand the need to maintain a budget, it seems strange to race an engine like a 602 and want to cheap out on the oil. With that said, what is the range of oil temperature the engine sees when racing? This would be a better indicator of what type of oil to use. What about adding an oil cooler to it or does it have one? I am guessing that a synthetic might be needed depending on the oil temps.
For the axle, temperatures would help here too and would be a good way to know what you need. I would err on the side of caution if no other data is available to make an informed decision and use a synthetic oil and would consider a 75W-110 (which is the viscosity that 75W-90 used to be before the J300 charts were updated).
What is recommended by GM for that crate engine? It should have a card or papers with it with the recommended oil weight.
As far as gear oil I would try to find a local AMSOIL dealer or talk to Pablo here and run Severe Gear 75w90. My second choice would be Valvoline Synpower 75w90
As far as gear oil I would try to find a local AMSOIL dealer or talk to Pablo here and run Severe Gear 75w90. My second choice would be Valvoline Synpower 75w90
Racing a 602 under constant load at 210, and 6200 rpm is going to be a lot safer with a true racing oil.
If he's got one of those nice programs where the oil manufacturer is paying you enough sponsor money to run their OTS oils that you can redo the engine every race, then have at it.
If you know you're going to be dumping oil often, stop buying it off the shelf in quarts and start ordering the correct oil in gallons. You know as well as I do that engine is going to rip an OTS oil to shreds multiple times compared to what you're going to get out of a good racing oil.
The latest and greatest new generation V8 engines call for a 50 weight for racing.
Now what do you suppose you ought to be running in an old school super modified elephant engine for racing?
Unless you're on the EPA racing team, go ahead and get a drum of VR1 or Schaeffer Supreme 7000 in 20/50 and call it a day.
The moment one decides to go racing, they've already committed themselves to an acre of large and frivolous expenses.
If he's got one of those nice programs where the oil manufacturer is paying you enough sponsor money to run their OTS oils that you can redo the engine every race, then have at it.
If you know you're going to be dumping oil often, stop buying it off the shelf in quarts and start ordering the correct oil in gallons. You know as well as I do that engine is going to rip an OTS oil to shreds multiple times compared to what you're going to get out of a good racing oil.
The latest and greatest new generation V8 engines call for a 50 weight for racing.
Now what do you suppose you ought to be running in an old school super modified elephant engine for racing?
Unless you're on the EPA racing team, go ahead and get a drum of VR1 or Schaeffer Supreme 7000 in 20/50 and call it a day.
The moment one decides to go racing, they've already committed themselves to an acre of large and frivolous expenses.
M1 15W-50 will be fine - available at Walmart. I'd break in the motor - one or two races on any quality 20W-50 dino - I'd especially recommend Kendall. I used M1 in my SBC road race cars - 7500-9000 RPM with no issues - water up to 240F, oil sometimes reaching 300F. I'd change the M1 every season or 20-30 hours. I had a 16 qt dry sump.
GM recommends "synthetic 15W50" for the 602:
https://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Ch...ne-19258602.pdf
https://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Ch...ne-19258602.pdf
I raced a 602 crate very successfully for 4 years. Mobil 1 15-50 is what I used. I raced approx 20 nights a year. I started with fresh oil at the start of year and didn't change it all season. I also only ran 6qts in it, 1 qt low, to help with windage. This engine ran flawlessly for me, and I sold it to a guy who raced it 2 more seasons for sure. IDK what happened to it after that, I haven't seen that guy since. I and then he, never had it freshened for those 6 seasons. I'm not saying that's the best oil, but it's a [censored] fine oil on a budget.
Valve springs were much more maintenance than oil. They were only good for about 6 nights at best. And they float at 6500 rpm when new. I also ran the timing slightly higher than what's recommended, but not crazy. 36*? IIRC.
All in all it was a great engine that took a lot of abuse. We had a lot of guys running them and the 604 here.
As far as gear oil, after much money spend on rear ends, I have found that Amsoil BY FAR it the best gear oil for racing.
P.S. I raced paved oval. Tight 1/4 mile to high banked 1/2 mile. I set fast time at every track I took this engine to. Still hold track record from almost 10 years ago.
Valve springs were much more maintenance than oil. They were only good for about 6 nights at best. And they float at 6500 rpm when new. I also ran the timing slightly higher than what's recommended, but not crazy. 36*? IIRC.
All in all it was a great engine that took a lot of abuse. We had a lot of guys running them and the 604 here.
As far as gear oil, after much money spend on rear ends, I have found that Amsoil BY FAR it the best gear oil for racing.
P.S. I raced paved oval. Tight 1/4 mile to high banked 1/2 mile. I set fast time at every track I took this engine to. Still hold track record from almost 10 years ago.
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One of my friends has a 604 crate engine in his NASCAR truck, it is a track toy and a 604 is a lot cheaper to run than a 358. He uses Mobil 1 15W50 per the cap. They say you can go a bit thinner for more power, but it is easier to just run the 15W50.
Does the 602 have a dipstick? The 604 didn't. When we ran it at Willow Springs a few weeks ago the oil pressure dropped to 0 on the main straight, added a quart and that fixed it. The book says to run an extra quart for tracks with long straights, apparently Big Willow qualifies.
Does the 602 have a dipstick? The 604 didn't. When we ran it at Willow Springs a few weeks ago the oil pressure dropped to 0 on the main straight, added a quart and that fixed it. The book says to run an extra quart for tracks with long straights, apparently Big Willow qualifies.
15w50 in the motor
Chevron delo 75w90 syn in the diff (under $6 per at)
Chevron delo 75w90 syn in the diff (under $6 per at)
LOL dirt track racing modifieds/late models and skimping on oil for low budget? wait till he grenades that nice 602 and has to rebuild or buy another. Think about it, how much are you actually going to spend on a good oil in the grand scheme of things?? what an extra $100 maybe for race oil? He'll spend that in tires and race fuel if he's fast or is even trying to be competitive!
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You got a relevant high quality answer from Srt20.
All I can add is the difference in cost in your oil choices is nothing compared to fixing bent cars, and racing dirt you know it's going to get bent. Someone said buy it in bulk, gotta agree, determine the need for the year and the best choice and buy it once.
Been there done that shoestring budget racing on dirt and pavement and wouldn't do it over. Too much added stress. Good luck to you and you friend.
All I can add is the difference in cost in your oil choices is nothing compared to fixing bent cars, and racing dirt you know it's going to get bent. Someone said buy it in bulk, gotta agree, determine the need for the year and the best choice and buy it once.
Been there done that shoestring budget racing on dirt and pavement and wouldn't do it over. Too much added stress. Good luck to you and you friend.
LOl, I agree on the bent race cars part. He managed to bend 2 frames last season, the 3rd on was so twisted, after he put it together I told him to strip it and put back in the woods were he found it. The 602 crate is not an exotic race engine, its in fact as basic a small block chevy as you can get. 9:1 compression, cast crank and pistons, hyd cam and lifters, its a glorified pick up truck motor. Tts just what the sportman class is required to use. My engine builder, who does our teams 850hp BBC, says 15w50 to way to thick for the 602 and recommends something thinner in the 30-40 weights. Trust me I'm not trying to cheap out on this, but Joe Gibbs oil is $17 a qt! At 7-8 qts that adds up fast. I know cause we use XP6 in the BBC, but im not the paying for it. My team owner helps the kid as much as he can, used tires,parts and such. I'm gonna see if my NAPA store can stock some VR1 for me and try and order the kid a few bottles of Redline gear oil, when I order ours. I thank you all for your advise and wisdom.
Don't most guys start in something a little less expensive? Even the 4cyl beaters looked like great fun at our local track.
Anyways, I guess he's committed now, hopefully things go well!
My experience with thicker oil(15W40 in a Neon) has gone pretty well, the one time I didn't keep the car warm enough for the first autocross run on a banked oval and got enough oil built up in the valve cover to put on a smoke show. Later runs with warmer oil had no problems.
Anyways, I guess he's committed now, hopefully things go well!
My experience with thicker oil(15W40 in a Neon) has gone pretty well, the one time I didn't keep the car warm enough for the first autocross run on a banked oval and got enough oil built up in the valve cover to put on a smoke show. Later runs with warmer oil had no problems.
The 602 crate is 350 ci Small block chevy, it has no did dipstick, just a sight plug in the pan. They cant be rebuilt, or shouldnt be,they use special break away bolts, sealing the engine. Though some sound a run way better then others, hmmm. If you look at 4m.net in the crate racing section there are alot of posts about oil, you would be surprised what people use. The most popular is M1 10w30. OCI intervals range from very often to once a season with surprising results. I have to check the rule book about running a oil cooler, I'm a big believer in them and running the correct amount. I've seen too many blown up crates cause somebody didnt put enough oil in it. As for oil and rearend temps, I dont have that answer, Yet.
He did start out in karts and then sling shots, he moved up last year.
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