How Often Does TOYOTA Produce a Lemon?

[CrackyWainwright]

I'm proud of being able to use the word "lemon" and "produce" in the same subject line, but clever puns are beside the point.

When I was kid my dad came home with an almost new 1975 Toyota Celica GT which was the sharpest, coolest, sportiest car we had ever owned. The Celica was a replacement for a '74 Chevy Vega that was utter junk from day one.

The Celica GT wasn't fast by modern sports car standards, but at the time we considered it a fast, fun car to drive . . . when it would crank and actually run. That car, despite being very new at the time, had endless electrical and carburetor problems that kept it in the shop all the time.

We had begun to hear how Toyota cars and pickups were so much better than domestic brands, so it came as shock to my dad that the Celica GT ended up giving as many problems as the Vega.

Reckon just how often Toyota turns out a real lemon vehicle?

 

[CT8]

For a while they produced less lemons that other manufactures.

 

[Doog]

Things have changed since 1975...........I am on my 7th Toyota vehicle. Some issues with 2 of them the others were flawless.

BUT...Toyota never failed to repair any of the issues to my complete satisfaction. That said the 2006-2008 Rav4 models could probably be classified as a "Toyota Lemon" which would be the equivalent of a normal production level quality standard for GM or Chrysler.

You see once you get through your 3rd or 4th Toyota you get used to never having to return to the dealer except for normal maintenance or an occasional model year part recall. The last 2 Lexus recalls they offered to come get the car and give a loaner or a $50 shell card is you came in.

My Toyota dealer always gives me a loaner to try a different model. That works too because I traded my 4Runner in on an Avalon after driving one for a day when I brought my truck in for an alignment.

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: CT8
For a while they produced less lemons that other manufactures.


yeah 20 years

 

[DBMaster]

There making THESE now?

 

[Silverado12]

I agree that certain years of domestics and certain models weren't so good, but if you get a Chevy, for example, at the middle of a production run the odds are greater you'll get a good car. My Chevy Cruze is likely to be a decent car since they had 5 model years before to work the bugs out. My 2012 Silverado has been flawless in the 4 years I have owned it. Can't do better than that. Japan in general has good quality control, but materials have been questionable. Don't see it much now, but Toyota, Honda, Datsun, etc. would rot away worse in the North.

 

[CrackyWainwright]

Originally Posted By: Doog
Things have changed since 1975...........I am on my 7th Toyota vehicle. Some issues with 2 of them the others were flawless.

BUT...Toyota never failed to repair any of the issues to my complete satisfaction. That said the 2006-2008 Rav4 models could probably be classified as a "Toyota Lemon" which would be the equivalent of a normal production level quality standard for GM or Chrysler.

You see once you get through your 3rd or 4th Toyota you get used to never having to return to the dealer except for normal maintenance or an occasional model year part recall. The last 2 Lexus recalls they offered to come get the car and give a loaner or a $50 shell card is you came in.

My Toyota dealer always gives me a loaner to try a different model. That works too because I traded my 4Runner in on an Avalon after driving one for a day when I brought my truck in for an alignment.


Yes, I too have owned many Toyotas in the 90s and 2000s, and they were good vehicles that gave us very few troubles. I've just always wondered what happened at the factory with that '75 Celica.

 

[dparm]

To be clear, are you talking the legal definition of a lemon vehicle?

If not, then this is a completely subjective discussion.

 

[gman2304]

"an occasional model year part recall".


My wife's 2006 Avalon had a VVT oil line burst the first week we owned it. It's a very common problem with this generation Avalon. The dealership towed it and the rubber line was replaced with a hard line. Toyota will fix the burst VVT line free if a customer complains, but has yet to issue a recall. It has had several recalls, the infamous 'accelerator hanging at full throttle' being only one.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Our 2005 rav 4 5MT had leaky rear shocks, leaky water pump and a noisy engine, rusted exhaust and an un-adjustable hydraulic clutch which grabbed at the carpet (thus grinding 2nd and 3rd) by 50 and <3 years. I guess winter in NE with many sub zero starts doesn't make for a long life. The car drove better than just about anything awd at this price (19K) for the first 2 years and the engine was in awesome tune when young. Better than Subies.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

My Yaris had recall for cat meltdown and plugging. I finally got approved, but by then it was too late for the motor and I just traded it.

 

[440Magnum]

Pretty much every year since 2000, including a few whoppers (sludge-making PCV systems, faulty PCM software that hangs and reboots with the throttle open as revealed in the civil lawsuits over 'unintended acceleration,' early Tundra rust problems, later Tundra brake, rear axle, and suspension problems, etc.) They haven't been significantly less problematic than other manufacturers for 20+ years IMO. Their glory years of the late 80s are long gone, they're just another giant carmaker, very much on a par with GM and Volkswagen AG which are similar in size.

 

[HerrStig]

I've got the answer right here...oops I dropped the slip of paper and it blew away.

 

[DrRoughneck]

Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: CT8
For a while they produced less lemons that other manufactures.


yeah 20 years

More like 40.

While most Toyotas are reliable on average, some individual vehicles can be troublesome.

The most effective way to look at things in large numbers is statistics, and in the case of vehicles this too applies.

One statistical metric to compare reliability between brands is the average number of problems per vehicle per year. This is the metric used by Consumer Reports by the way. It's simple and a pretty good metric in my opinion.

For 2015 Lexus ranked #1 most reliable brand using this metric, followed by Toyota. It doesn't mean that Lexus/Toyotas are trouble-free. It means however that they are on average less troublesome than cars from other brands.

http://counton2.com/2015/11/17/consumer-reports-most-and-least-reliable-cars/

 

[DrRoughneck]

.

 

[HerrStig]

Some of those uber engineered German brands don't always fare so well at many times the cost of the average Toyota. I note Range Rover is into black box module changing now to "expedite" repairs.

 

[gman2304]

^ According to the link, the most reliable vehicle of all is the Audi Q3......!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: gman2304
^ According to the link, the most reliable vehicle of all is the Audi Q3......!

And Audi is the best brand.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/consumer-reports-reveals-top-2016-cars-brands-audi-ford-buick/

Toyota beats it in predicted reliability though.

 

[skyactiv]

OMG your talking about 40 years ago. Personally, I would love for cars to still be as simple as they were 40 years ago, even if they weren't as reliable. My dad who's a retired attorney, was able to slap on a new timing chain on my moms 74' Olds when I was a little kid. He couldn't put a new one on to save his life on her Audi A3

 

[Virtus_Probi]

My RAV4 wasn't a lemon, but the AWD required an expensive repair just past 60kmiles and I was told that it was very common for that system. The service advisor at the Toyota specialty shop that fixed it told me they saw it a lot with the V6, he had a theory that it could be caused by just having the front tires sitting on a wet painted line on the road and having the AWD transfer the power too quickly from the front to the back (it was a crude system) after you tried get going and spun the fronts. Eventually you would get a crack and a drip, think it was $3500 for my to fix it even with a remanufactured component. That car had a very touchy throttle and it took me a while to figure out how to feather it...it was always funny when I would come back from driving a rental car on a trip for a week or two and try to back my "RAV6" out of parking spot, I would lurch around even though I was telling myself that I needed to be light on the pedal.
My wife's FWD Avalon of the same vintage has never had an issue, but I am of the opinion that it needs a good Italian tuneup...she only recently passed 80kmiles after 10 years with the thing and rarely revs the engine at all because she doesn't like to hear it.