Audi abandoning Torsen AWD

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Sorry but IME the electronics of modern vehicles have become quite reliable. Diagnostics are a breeze and few repairs are needed.



Exactly, AWD unit failed codes, replace the entire AWD component with reman. Just pray you are under warranty otherwise on the hook for a $2k-$5k vehicle component!

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Great. So for a mpg or so they abandon what their rep was based on.

I would imagine an average buyer will not care. They just want to know that it's AWD and aren't interested in how it works underneath. I hear A3 and Q3 are selling well despite not being Torsen either.

VAG corporate certainly cares about CAFE though.


Yuppies don't care about the technical details.... just that they present an image when picking up kids at school.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice

Yuppies don't care about the technical details.... just that they present an image when picking up kids at school.


I think that depends.... when it comes to the luxury car market, I think authenticity and reputation tends to matter more than actual function. If Audi's brand image is totally wrapped up in how Quattro functions, then they may suffer. If Audi faithful don't care, then it'll be fine.

I don't know many Audi owners, but the ones I've met don't seem to be that wrapped up in how things work under the skin. Contrast this with faddish Jeep Wrangler owners, who may not use their vehicle's capabilities, but they're happy to go on and on about how amazing their vehicle would be were they to take it off road.

 

[Alfred_B]

I got my Audi specifically for the Quattro. I'm sure Quattro will still be available as a high end AWD system.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: ChristianReske
More Electronic.
Oh yeah.
Less reliability, more breakdowns, more and higher repair costs for the owner.






Nailed it.

The current Quattro system that has been used for decades now is THE best system on any 4WD car today, it is time tested, reliable, and durable, this new "ultra" you can bet will be a headache.

Do "average" owners care about the change maybe not, but many Audi owners are NOT the average owner and they will care.


In 2010 it failed this test of two wheels on ice, two wheels on pavement. Not saying SH-AWD on Acura is better but in this case yes and on a steeper grade too:


Not sure how my wife's Subaru with no electronic AWD would have done better except that it has LSD on rear that may have saved it. I have actually gotten stuck this way somewhat.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
I got my Audi specifically for the Quattro. I'm sure Quattro will still be available as a high end AWD system.

What do you mean? Quattro is just a marketing name. It does not refer to any one specific AWD system/technology. Currently Audi uses both Haldex and Torsen in their various models, and they are all called 'quattro.'

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
I got my Audi specifically for the Quattro. I'm sure Quattro will still be available as a high end AWD system.

What do you mean? Quattro is just a marketing name. It does not refer to any one specific AWD system/technology. Currently Audi uses both Haldex and Torsen in their various models, and they are all called 'quattro.'


Do they really call the Haldex system 'quattro', I know they use this on the smaller cars and the Passats?

EDIT: Yep, looks like they are calling it a 'quattro' on A3. "Transmission & Drivetrain -- Six-speed S tronic® dual-clutch automatic transmission quattro® all-wheel drive"

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Guess my AWD RAV4 taught me that all such systems are not the same. Drove an Outback that was very boring, but was a tank in the winter. Got the "RAV6" that was way more fun, but it had a really bad habit of suddenly sending all the V6 power from the front to the rear if it started to slip in a turn. WHOOSH here comes the back end around if it's icy!
There was an electronic 4WD button that fixed that issue, but it kicked out automatically at 25mph. Try doing a steep, icy hill at 25mph without feeling like a little more speed would be nice.
Been happy with the AWD in my FXT so far, although I prefer using the paddle shifters on ice to the built in X-Mode. Wonder if I would have been happy with the Acura RDX I was a hair's breadth away from buying, given that it shares one of the worst AWD systems in the industry with the CR-V? The one that a Swedish auto mag said was not actually AWD.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Why is this news?

Audi hasn't exclusively used Torsen for a while now. The TT has used a Haldex system for almost 20 years. A3 and Q3 have used Haldex systems since their respective introductions. All are marketed as Quattro.

Magna Powertrain is the supplier for the new Audi system.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Why is this news?

It is news because longitudinal engines always had torsen. Now they will not.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Yuppies don't care about the technical details.... just that they present an image when picking up kids at school.


^^^THIS, at least that's the case for the tens of thousands of them one sees in this area, it's a STATUS SYMBOL ONLY!!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Link to animation video of quattro ultra (I hear the next version will be called ultra platinum

)

https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/videos/quattro-with-ultra-technology-animation-1552

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: madRiver
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Sorry but IME the electronics of modern vehicles have become quite reliable. Diagnostics are a breeze and few repairs are needed.



Exactly, AWD unit failed codes, replace the entire AWD component with reman. Just pray you are under warranty otherwise on the hook for a $2k-$5k vehicle component!


You're optimistic...I suspect it will be replaced as a unit with the transmission!

 

[hattaresguy]

So Audi is changing their AWD system so it works about as well as the drive on the Porsche Tiger? Typical Audi.

They still can't figure out how to design a timing chain, or a cooling system.


Whatever just lease the A4 for $359 a month for 39 months, at month 40 who cares you can get an A5 the next sucker can deal with it!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Sorry but IME the electronics of modern vehicles have become quite reliable. Diagnostics are a breeze and few repairs are needed.



Exactly, AWD unit failed codes, replace the entire AWD component with reman. Just pray you are under warranty otherwise on the hook for a $2k-$5k vehicle component!


You're optimistic...I suspect it will be replaced as a unit with the transmission!


If you rely on a stealership then you deserve whatever you get...

 

[Jarlaxle]

You assume it will be available any other way..........

 

[Quattro Pete]

There are some technology videos in this Jalopnik article on the subject...

Link

 

[Andrew1972]

A major bummer about a system like this is one errant speed sensor and the whole thing seems to shut down. Hopefully a Check Engine won't either on initial flagging.

The system in certain ways appears similar to SH-AWD on Acura however not sure about decoupling part. That all being said my Acura when a check engine light is triggered at first SH-AWD, traction control, stability control all shut off until you restart whether clearing a CEL or not.

Also my Acura went to FWD mode/traction/stability off of course on a wet day when a speed sensor failed. That did not clear however was a $100 fix at my local mechanic. From the dash scrolling failures it appeared to be as if the car was going to costs thousands to fix.

 

[bluesubie]

A lot of people that gripe about Haldex probably do so based on older versions. The S3 can send up to 100% torque to the rear wheels. I seem to recall reading a document about this new Haldex on another site that implied the front/rear torque split can vary with the different Drive Select modes.

If not, I'm sure those that are really bothered by this will get a Haldex controller anyway.