OK,I've read this board for years, but now I have to speak up. I have TWO Prius's. A 2001 and a 2005. Both have been fed an exclusive diet of Rotella 15w40 since new. The 01 has 130k and the 05 just hit 200k. Mileage is in the low to mid 50s with each. Engines are as quiet as new and no repairs done other than oil changes and transmission oil changes and some recall items. Am I implying one should not follow the manufactures recomendations? No. I see no reason for all the fuss over oils. I use Rotella Diesel oil because it works in my cars, motorcycles (Ducati Moto Guzzi) and works great in lawn equipment. Just find a brand you like and stick with it. For me, one oil for everything. Flame suit on..... I feel thin oils are for electric motors and sewing machines.
Thin oil, thick oil, synth or dino,
- Thread starter Cruzingoose
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Lots of ways to make metal slippery my friend. I tend to stick with a mix of mfgr recommendation and common sense. That being said if pressed you could put me in the thick crowd. I honestly believe the move to thin oil has been motivated solely by fuel economy. Im not saying it doesn't work...ive used 20 weights myself...but i do believe that a thicker oil within reason does prevent more wear.
I'm a big one for manufacturer recommendations - but you can't complain with two vehicles well into the "high mileage" category.
Benefit of diesel oils in a petrol: They're high-detergent, so it'll be clean (and maybe last longer than in a diesel) and designed for more punishment, too.
Thin oils might be for fuel economy - but if they work well (which they seem to, I haven't seen anything about "class action lawsuits" as a result of these oils) then there isn't really all that much to complain about, especially if they can take the car the distance.
I think Shannow can best explain whether there is much difference, and from what I've taken in from his posts is that, bar extremes (like 70 weight oils, or 16 weight oils), most engines don't really care much for what you put in. So long as you aren't creating so much oil pressure as to blow filters apart, of course.
As for Synth. vs Dino: I think this is just technology that can do the same thing for twice as long and reduce the cost of ownership. For most applications, I think either might be okay depending on the drain interval and usage patterns.
For those who "live on the extreme" more with hard driving, short-tripping, turbos and long-drains, then obviously a synthetic oil will be far better suited and cost less than constantly replacing a dino.
For my car - a synthetic oil is where its at. Changing on the older 3month/3K mile (or 5K mile) schedule with good quality conventional would cost just as much as replacing a good BMW LL-01 synthetic once a year/7.5K miles per the 1993 servicing requirements. This doesn't factor in the cost of time if I DIY or the cost of labor if a shop did the work (
Lastly - I wonder what a UOA might show for Rotella in the Toyota Prius. Its definitely something outside the norm, but I would like to see where whether the oil is holding more or less metal-contaminants compared to a thin-synthetic oil of some sort.
A long while back, there was a UOA posted for a recently-model Toyota Yaris using a 15w40 oil here in Australia. The results were certainly quite nice. Again, it was Shannow who pointed out that WARM-UP, not start up is where much of the engine's wear takes place. This is more a product of the oil itself not being able to lubricate and protect as well at lower temperatures, IIRC.
Thanks for your post! I look forward to the ensuing discussion.
You may get lots of comments from nay-sayers, especially with thick oil and a cold climate. But the engines are still working, and presumably not using copious quantities of oil - so who cares?
Benefit of diesel oils in a petrol: They're high-detergent, so it'll be clean (and maybe last longer than in a diesel) and designed for more punishment, too.
Thin oils might be for fuel economy - but if they work well (which they seem to, I haven't seen anything about "class action lawsuits" as a result of these oils) then there isn't really all that much to complain about, especially if they can take the car the distance.
I think Shannow can best explain whether there is much difference, and from what I've taken in from his posts is that, bar extremes (like 70 weight oils, or 16 weight oils), most engines don't really care much for what you put in. So long as you aren't creating so much oil pressure as to blow filters apart, of course.
As for Synth. vs Dino: I think this is just technology that can do the same thing for twice as long and reduce the cost of ownership. For most applications, I think either might be okay depending on the drain interval and usage patterns.
For those who "live on the extreme" more with hard driving, short-tripping, turbos and long-drains, then obviously a synthetic oil will be far better suited and cost less than constantly replacing a dino.
For my car - a synthetic oil is where its at. Changing on the older 3month/3K mile (or 5K mile) schedule with good quality conventional would cost just as much as replacing a good BMW LL-01 synthetic once a year/7.5K miles per the 1993 servicing requirements. This doesn't factor in the cost of time if I DIY or the cost of labor if a shop did the work (
Lastly - I wonder what a UOA might show for Rotella in the Toyota Prius. Its definitely something outside the norm, but I would like to see where whether the oil is holding more or less metal-contaminants compared to a thin-synthetic oil of some sort.
A long while back, there was a UOA posted for a recently-model Toyota Yaris using a 15w40 oil here in Australia. The results were certainly quite nice. Again, it was Shannow who pointed out that WARM-UP, not start up is where much of the engine's wear takes place. This is more a product of the oil itself not being able to lubricate and protect as well at lower temperatures, IIRC.
Thanks for your post! I look forward to the ensuing discussion.
You may get lots of comments from nay-sayers, especially with thick oil and a cold climate. But the engines are still working, and presumably not using copious quantities of oil - so who cares?
I don't see a lot of problems with a 15w-40 in appropriate climates. If I chose to run 15w-40 in my climate (and South Dakota isn't that different), I'd be parking in the heated garage all the time, and, at the very least, be using an oil pan heater if stranded outside when things got ugly.
Originally Posted By: Cruzingoose
I feel thin oils are for electric motors and sewing machines.
I think you're gonna do just fine here. . .
I feel thin oils are for electric motors and sewing machines.
I think you're gonna do just fine here. . .
Originally Posted By: Kuato
15w50 in S Dakota, that's pretty bold - flame suit on indeed! I bet there will be some negative commentary soon but you can't argue with results.
When I was turning wrenches for the USPS they used one oil for everything (diesel & Gas) which was 15w40 dino. We started having problems with a lot of the LLV vehicles (S10 4cyl motor) throwing rods when it was really cold outside at start up when the cold idle shot up. I asked my "supervisor" Hey Jonesy, It' says to use 5w30 on the oil fill cap. Maybe we should be using what the oem specs oils for this application on these fast idle startup problems we're having in this cold weather. His answer was don't worry about it. And the beat goes on...
When I was turning wrenches for the USPS they used one oil for everything (diesel & Gas) which was 15w40 dino. We started having problems with a lot of the LLV vehicles (S10 4cyl motor) throwing rods when it was really cold outside at start up when the cold idle shot up. I asked my "supervisor" Hey Jonesy, It' says to use 5w30 on the oil fill cap. Maybe we should be using what the oem specs oils for this application on these fast idle startup problems we're having in this cold weather. His answer was don't worry about it. And the beat goes on...
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Wonder how long that guy was a boss; probably not long after motors start blowing up
I'm going to call nonsense on this whole thread. New guy, starts off with the usual "I've read this board for years..." thing, just happens to pick one of the most contentious subject on BITOG, drives not one but two Prius vehicles, and uses (wait for it...wait...) 15W-40 in them (!).
I vote he's yet another troll, someone either previously banned or a current member that just wants to get attention.
I vote he's yet another troll, someone either previously banned or a current member that just wants to get attention.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I'm going to call nonsense on this whole thread. New guy, starts off with the usual "I've been here for a while..." thing. just happens to pick one of the most contentious subject on BITOG, drives not one but two Prius vehicles, and uses (wait for it...wait...) 15W-40 in them (!).
I vote he's yet another troll, someone either previously banned or a current member that just wants to get attention.
+1
I'm going to call nonsense on this whole thread. New guy, starts off with the usual "I've been here for a while..." thing. just happens to pick one of the most contentious subject on BITOG, drives not one but two Prius vehicles, and uses (wait for it...wait...) 15W-40 in them (!).
I vote he's yet another troll, someone either previously banned or a current member that just wants to get attention.
+1
I swear half the time you can tell by their screen name.
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I'm going to call nonsense on this whole thread. New guy, starts off with the usual "I've been here for a while..." thing. just happens to pick one of the most contentious subject on BITOG, drives not one but two Prius vehicles, and uses (wait for it...wait...) 15W-40 in them (!).
I vote he's yet another troll, someone either previously banned or a current member that just wants to get attention.
+1
AVERY!
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I'm going to call nonsense on this whole thread. New guy, starts off with the usual "I've been here for a while..." thing. just happens to pick one of the most contentious subject on BITOG, drives not one but two Prius vehicles, and uses (wait for it...wait...) 15W-40 in them (!).
I vote he's yet another troll, someone either previously banned or a current member that just wants to get attention.
+1
AVERY!
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I'm going to call nonsense on this whole thread. New guy, starts off with the usual "I've been here for a while..." thing. just happens to pick one of the most contentious subject on BITOG, drives not one but two Prius vehicles, and uses (wait for it...wait...) 15W-40 in them (!).
I vote he's yet another troll, someone either previously banned or a current member that just wants to get attention.
+1
You guys are so smart!
Wow!
Ocult known...
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I'm going to call nonsense on this whole thread. New guy, starts off with the usual "I've been here for a while..." thing. just happens to pick one of the most contentious subject on BITOG, drives not one but two Prius vehicles, and uses (wait for it...wait...) 15W-40 in them (!).
I vote he's yet another troll, someone either previously banned or a current member that just wants to get attention.
+1
You guys are so smart!
Wow!
Ocult known...
To each there own. If it works for you, that is good. I can't imagine running 15w40 in South Dakota year round on what is an eco-friendly mpg oriented vehicle? Maybe if the 15w40 works so well, upgrade to a 20w50 when it gets to be -10 degrees and listen to those engines hum along (not really). This morning was -14 degrees at my house, and my old Camry with PYB5w30 and 1/2 qt MMO sounded rough. It started up right away but WOW. I can't imagine a 15w40 being in there today? I would consider that punishment for my old beater, and I actually do LIKE the car alot! But do whatever work for you.....
15W-40 in South Dakota cold starts doesn't sound like a great idea to me, but whatever floats your boat. I'd rather use T6 5W-40 full synthetic, I think that is more of an oil that you can use in almost anything.
I think the 0W-20 & 5W-20 movement is solely for fuel economy & I don't think it brings any other benefits whatsoever. Your vehicle will likely run forever on 20 weight if that's what it calls for, but a 0/5W-30 won't hurt in most cases. What was with Ford's mysterious change from 5W-20 to 5W-30 in the 6.2L Super Duty for 2016? I think if it wasn't for the EPA trying to squeeze out the last 0.1 MPG extra, 5W-30 would be the norm for newer vehicles - not 0/5W-20.
I switched my Fusion from the recommended 5W-20 to 5W-30 about 900 miles ago & I've seen no change in fuel economy but my engine idles considerably more quiet now.
I think the 0W-20 & 5W-20 movement is solely for fuel economy & I don't think it brings any other benefits whatsoever. Your vehicle will likely run forever on 20 weight if that's what it calls for, but a 0/5W-30 won't hurt in most cases. What was with Ford's mysterious change from 5W-20 to 5W-30 in the 6.2L Super Duty for 2016? I think if it wasn't for the EPA trying to squeeze out the last 0.1 MPG extra, 5W-30 would be the norm for newer vehicles - not 0/5W-20.
I switched my Fusion from the recommended 5W-20 to 5W-30 about 900 miles ago & I've seen no change in fuel economy but my engine idles considerably more quiet now.
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I'm going to call nonsense on this whole thread. New guy, starts off with the usual "I've been here for a while..." thing. just happens to pick one of the most contentious subject on BITOG, drives not one but two Prius vehicles, and uses (wait for it...wait...) 15W-40 in them (!).
I vote he's yet another troll, someone either previously banned or a current member that just wants to get attention.
+1
You guys are so smart!
Wow!
Ocult known...
Nah, not really. Just a fishy post. But anything is possible i guess.
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I'm going to call nonsense on this whole thread. New guy, starts off with the usual "I've been here for a while..." thing. just happens to pick one of the most contentious subject on BITOG, drives not one but two Prius vehicles, and uses (wait for it...wait...) 15W-40 in them (!).
I vote he's yet another troll, someone either previously banned or a current member that just wants to get attention.
+1
You guys are so smart!
Wow!
Ocult known...
Nah, not really. Just a fishy post. But anything is possible i guess.
Note how, just as on the political blogs, when someone makes a non PC remark about oil, he or she is rapidly subject to personal attacks which are just a petty as those ON the political blogs. I suppose that's the best they can do. Meanwhile, we continue to learn how DIFFERENT OEM oil specs are for the same vehicles on other parts of the world.
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By using 15W-40 instead of 5W-20 you have spent an extra $350 on fuel over the life of your two Prius's, with no compensating benefits. In fact, a case could be made that your engine wear has _increased_ because of the thicker oil. On the flip side, if you had used 0W-20 oil, that would have increased your oil costs since it has more synthetic content.
330,000 miles / 52 mpg * $2.75/gal * 0.02 = $349.
(A 2% reduction in fuel consumption has been assumed based on calculations Honda presented showing a 1.5% decrease in fuel consumption going from 5W-30 to 0W-20 oil.)
330,000 miles / 52 mpg * $2.75/gal * 0.02 = $349.
(A 2% reduction in fuel consumption has been assumed based on calculations Honda presented showing a 1.5% decrease in fuel consumption going from 5W-30 to 0W-20 oil.)
I didn't know they specified 15W-40 for a Prius in the country of South Dakota.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Note how, just as on the political blogs, when someone makes a non PC remark about oil, he or she is rapidly subject to personal attacks which are just a petty as those ON the political blogs. I suppose that's the best they can do. Meanwhile, we continue to learn how DIFFERENT OEM oil specs are for the same vehicles on other parts of the world.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Note how, just as on the political blogs, when someone makes a non PC remark about oil, he or she is rapidly subject to personal attacks which are just a petty as those ON the political blogs. I suppose that's the best they can do. Meanwhile, we continue to learn how DIFFERENT OEM oil specs are for the same vehicles on other parts of the world.
If he has read here for years and learned anything about oil I'd say where he lives his oil choice is poor, especially for the winter. But, his cars, his money, his choice.......... I'm happy he has no problems.
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