Weapon Shield

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Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: 90crvtec
Why would I use an additive that doesn't demonstrably show a benefit on a firearm and has been associated with metal fatigue/corrosion?


Show me ANY evidence what so ever, of a firearm having or showing either "metal fatigue", and or "corrosion", from using Weapon Shield. Just one.
militec 1 didn't take long to out itself as sucking. If ws caused similar issues...
 
What we do at bitog is "Go where no person needs to go"...lol

Its like finding perfection in an engine oil. I have a gun safe that for a period of 10+ years I hadn't even opened it. There were shotguns and rifles that my dad used 40 years ago. A couple not touched in that time. My 2 Model 12 shoties had never seen anything except "sewing machine oil" since the 40. They were put away 30 years ago and are rust free in a cabnet in my garage. So much for "protection"

I will bet my Mechanical Engineering Degree that I could take my Glock 43 put 10K rounds through and you wouldn't see any difference with sewing machine oil, Weapon Shield, or my 50/50 mixture of ATF/Gear Oil after that time.

Its OK though we (me included) do the ridiculous on here...lol.
 
Weapon Shield is one of the highest customer rated firearm lubrication products wherever it's sold. If you need an example, check the customer reviews at Midway USA. No other product comes close. (About the only other one is Bore Tech Eliminator, which is not a lubricant).

George Fennel is an educated lubrication specialist who was a member of the SAE for years. He himself designed and marketed the original FP-10 product. After he sold the company, and the formula he designed was changed until it no longer represented his original product, he then went to work and designed the Steel Shield / Weapon Shield line of products. Which have gone on to become some of the most successful in the industry.

The fact is Weapon Shield is used by countless civilian's, military, and law enforcement all over the globe. If there was ANY, repeat ANY evidence this product inducing metal fatigue, rust, corrosion on firearms, you most certainly would have heard about it, and seen evidence of it by now from someone. The product has been out in the marketplace for well over a decade. You don't because it hasn't. Not in ANY climate. Hot, cold, dry, or humid.

As far as the Falex test being a "distraction".... A distraction to what? The machine has been around doing what it's designed to do for 70 years. Why is it always the products Weapon Shield outperforms in these tests, are constantly the one's trying to discredit it?

George Fennel is an upstanding guy who answers straight questions with honest answers. Quite rare in todays world. His credentials are impeccable. Especially against these ex "operators", Navy Seals, and others who produce products like "Frog Lube", and have zero education or experience in lubrication. But rather sell based on experience that has nothing to do with lubrication.

Now, if you don't want to believe him, me, or the thousands of people who have used this product with great success, that's fine. It's a free country, and you can use whatever you choose on your weapons. I have zero vested interest in this product, and could care less who uses it, and who doesn't. Personally, I've tried just about everything in the way of "gun oils", and found this to be noticeably better. But if you have no evidence of it, please spare us all this nonsense about corrosion, rust, and all of the other associated accusations, of which there is not a shred of evidence of it occurring anywhere by the use of this product. All this does is create yet more Internet bull$h!t, of which there is too much already. Need proof? Just look at all of the "Chlorinated Ester" nonsense that's been written thus far, without a single damaged firearm being offered up as proof of this occurring directly because of using Weapon Shield on it.

You may not believe Weapon Shield is better than other products. Again, that's perfectly acceptable. But don't spread nonsense that it could damage by way of rust,corrosion, and or "metal fatigue", when there is zero evidence of it happening anywhere because of it's use.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
I will bet my Mechanical Engineering Degree that I could take my Glock 43 put 10K rounds through and you wouldn't see any difference with sewing machine oil, Weapon Shield, or my 50/50 mixture of ATF/Gear Oil after that time. Its OK though we (me included) do the ridiculous on here.


I agree. It would most likely be difficult, if not impossible to detect. I've always said guns are not that difficult to keep running, and free from rust. My complaint is when people start posting concern about what a product contains, being able to DAMAGE the firearm it's used on. When there has been no direct evidence of such damage occurring anywhere.
 
Speaking only for myself, and what made me switch to Weapon Shield..... I own 3, .30-06 caliber bolt action rifles. (A Browning A-Bolt Medallion. A Ruger Model 77 Stainless, and a Weatherby Vanguard. All 3 are very accurate, and function perfectly, and have for years.

Some time ago I purchased 3 cases of .30-06 ammunition from the CMP. This was the "Greek Ammo" that the CMP was selling, because it was loaded to M1 Garand specifications. (Mid range powder burn rate). The price was very good on this ammunition at the time, ($381.00 for 3, 440 round cases delivered Fed Ex to my door). Or just under .29 cents a round. I couldn't buy new .30-06 brass for that price.

This ammo was known to be loaded very safe, but "hot". Or so I read on the CMP forum. Upon receiving it I took it out to the range with all 3 of my bolt action .30-06 rifles. I immediately noticed very hard bolt lift when I fired it in ALL 3 rifles. I had zero problems firing maximum handloads, along with different makes of factory ammunition of various brands and bullet weights in ANY of these rifles before. All the bolt lugs were lubricated with either Mobil 1 20W-50 motor oil, or Mobil 1 Synthetic grease at the time. None of the fired cases showed signs of over pressure.

I checked around on other gun forums, and had heard the same thing from other shooters. All said they had zero problems firing this ammo in M1 Garand rifles, but said they thought it was loaded "hot".

I let the ammo sit, wondering what to do with it, when I had read about the Weapon Shield line of products, and saw several of the You Tube tests performed by George Fennel. I purchased both the oil and the Weapon Shield Lithium Grease. I lubed all three of the rifles bolt lugs with Weapon Shield Grease, and headed back to the range with the ammo. The difficult bolt lift completely disappeared on ALL 3 RIFLES. I could lift the bolt handles on fired rounds with one finger.

On subsequent range outings with these rifles and ammunition I substituted the Weapon Shield Grease with the Weapon Shield Oil, and got the exact same light bolt lift. The last time I shot the Weatherby Vanguard with this same ammo, I purposely lubed the bolt lugs with Slip 2000 instead. Right back to very hard bolt lift. I took a Q-Tip and placed some Weapon Shield Grease on the lugs, worked the bolt a few times, and it completely disappeared on the next shot. The problem was not the ammunition. It was the lubrication. Granted, this was not a very scientific test. But it certainly proved to me the superior lubrication qualities of Weapon Shield in a real world scenario. Which is why it is all I now use.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
If ws caused similar issues...


IF??


Then you'd think we'd know by now..no?
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Weapon Shield is one of the highest customer rated firearm lubrication products wherever it's sold. If you need an example, check the customer reviews at Midway USA. No other product comes close. (About the only other one is Bore Tech Eliminator, which is not a lubricant).

George Fennel is an educated lubrication specialist who was a member of the SAE for years. He himself designed and marketed the original FP-10 product. After he sold the company, and the formula he designed was changed until it no longer represented his original product, he then went to work and designed the Steel Shield / Weapon Shield line of products. Which have gone on to become some of the most successful in the industry.

The fact is Weapon Shield is used by countless civilian's, military, and law enforcement all over the globe. If there was ANY, repeat ANY evidence this product inducing metal fatigue, rust, corrosion on firearms, you most certainly would have heard about it, and seen evidence of it by now from someone. The product has been out in the marketplace for well over a decade. You don't because it hasn't. Not in ANY climate. Hot, cold, dry, or humid.

As far as the Falex test being a "distraction".... A distraction to what? The machine has been around doing what it's designed to do for 70 years. Why is it always the products Weapon Shield outperforms in these tests, are constantly the one's trying to discredit it?

George Fennel is an upstanding guy who answers straight questions with honest answers. Quite rare in todays world. His credentials are impeccable. Especially against these ex "operators", Navy Seals, and others who produce products like "Frog Lube", and have zero education or experience in lubrication. But rather sell based on experience that has nothing to do with lubrication.

Now, if you don't want to believe him, me, or the thousands of people who have used this product with great success, that's fine. It's a free country, and you can use whatever you choose on your weapons. I have zero vested interest in this product, and could care less who uses it, and who doesn't. Personally, I've tried just about everything in the way of "gun oils", and found this to be noticeably better. But if you have no evidence of it, please spare us all this nonsense about corrosion, rust, and all of the other associated accusations, of which there is not a shred of evidence of it occurring anywhere by the use of this product. All this does is create yet more Internet bull$h!t, of which there is too much already. Need proof? Just look at all of the "Chlorinated Ester" nonsense that's been written thus far, without a single damaged firearm being offered up as proof of this occurring directly because of using Weapon Shield on it.

You may not believe Weapon Shield is better than other products. Again, that's perfectly acceptable. But don't spread nonsense that it could damage by way of rust,corrosion, and or "metal fatigue", when there is zero evidence of it happening anywhere because of it's use.


Fireclean got a 4.6 out of 263 reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/FIREClean-Anti-Fou...words=Fireclean
Weaponshield got a 4.8...out of 22 reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/Shield-Technologie...s=weapon+shield

personally, I don't find reviews on Amazon, Brownells, etc. very useful. Here is what FIREClean did when it was applied to my father's rifle, which sat in his safe for an extended period of time:
6z3u5y.jpg


But it did so WELL in reviews...

However, NOTHING I have used has compared to Fireclean in actually keeping the gun running. Just don't use it for storage.

I would also point out that my M4 kept running just fine, after 1500+ rounds of suppressed shooting using Wolf ammunition...using MPRO 7 LPX...but it DID corrode due to wolf being corrosive (in my opinion and observations...look at the evidence...) However, it corroded and was a NIGHTMARE to clean...

6h7pj8.jpg

289fm37.jpg


So, yes, I am very demanding of a product. I want it to "store" well, I want it to facilitate easy clean-up, and I want it to "run" well, and I want corrosion protection.

So far my only complaint in function with WS is that when carbon is introduced to the picture, it tends to become rather "gritty". My M4 will require a bit of a tug to unlock if I shoot a hundred rounds or so, and then set it aside for an evening, and then try to cycle the action, when lubed with Weapon Shield or MPRO7 LPX. With FIREClean, it always felt clean, even when it was filthy...but FC totally fails because it polymerizes and gunks up, as I pictured.

SLIP 2000 EWL is the next thing I'm going to try.

As to your allegations about Froglube, it was produced by Trillium Solutions by Scott Lee. They are a legitimate company, making legitimate products. People like Larry Lasky were just "faces", and people who tried to use those products on firearms...where they worked fine until they polymerized and gunked up.
 
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Originally Posted By: billt460

The fact is Weapon Shield is used by countless civilian's, military, and law enforcement all over the globe. If there was ANY, repeat ANY evidence this product inducing metal fatigue, rust, corrosion on firearms, you most certainly would have heard about it, and seen evidence of it by now from someone. The product has been out in the marketplace for well over a decade. You don't because it hasn't. Not in ANY climate. Hot, cold, dry, or humid.


Bilt- Same can be said for Ballistol, Breakfree, G96, Gunslick, Tetra, Mpro and many, many others. Sure there really are some bunk products out there. Sure Weaponshield does well in the falex test. Weaponshield is a good product from a good company but it is not the only one out there in anything. If you like it, keep using it, if not, don't bother. Your guns won't know the difference either way.

Ws6- Wow that sucks! That is going to take a lot of elbow grease to fix. Ballistol, Breakfree CLP and even poor old hoppes #9 oil wouldn't have caused that, just sayin'. Examples like that make me even more comfortable in my position to stick with a gun lubricant that is based on a traditional petroleum product. Plant, water or wax based lubricants just are not refined enough yet to be used on firearms with complete success.
 
Originally Posted By: Ws6
As to your allegations about Froglube, it was produced by Trillium Solutions by Scott Lee. They are a legitimate company, making legitimate products. People like Larry Lasky were just "faces", and people who tried to use those products on firearms...where they worked fine until they polymerized and gunked up.


"Frog Lube" is nothing more than roller coaster track lubricant. It was conveniently scented with mint, colored green, and repackaged as a firearms lubricant. Then marketed by an ex "operator" as a way of attracting firearms enthusiasts to purchase it. Which is why I call it "Fraud Lube". It is a vegetable based oil / grease, much like "Fireclean", and has zero business on ANY firearm. If you look on every bottle of Fireclean sold, it has a "use by" date on it. The stuff will spoil. Hardly anything you should be putting on ANY firearm. Especially one that is going to be stored for any length of time.

I agree with you about reviews. I don't buy firearm lubrication products based on reviews either. My point in sighting reviews about Weapon Shield products was if Weapon Shield caused "metal fatigue", rusting or corrosion because of what it contains, you would have heard about it by now. It is in enough peoples hands, over a long enough period of time, that any negative effects of it's use would have surfaced by now. None have. So there is no point in carrying on about something that there is no evidence of ever taking place. I convinced myself about Weapon Shield's positive properties in my above post about bolt lug lubrication. That was enough to keep me as a customer convinced of it's ability as a superior lubricant, over any and all others I've tried.
 
Originally Posted By: AMC
Originally Posted By: billt460

The fact is Weapon Shield is used by countless civilian's, military, and law enforcement all over the globe. If there was ANY, repeat ANY evidence this product inducing metal fatigue, rust, corrosion on firearms, you most certainly would have heard about it, and seen evidence of it by now from someone. The product has been out in the marketplace for well over a decade. You don't because it hasn't. Not in ANY climate. Hot, cold, dry, or humid.


Bilt- Same can be said for Ballistol, Breakfree, G96, Gunslick, Tetra, Mpro and many, many others. Sure there really are some bunk products out there. Sure Weaponshield does well in the falex test. Weaponshield is a good product from a good company but it is not the only one out there in anything. If you like it, keep using it, if not, don't bother. Your guns won't know the difference either way.

Ws6- Wow that sucks! That is going to take a lot of elbow grease to fix. Ballistol, Breakfree CLP and even poor old hoppes #9 oil wouldn't have caused that, just sayin'. Examples like that make me even more comfortable in my position to stick with a gun lubricant that is based on a traditional petroleum product. Plant, water or wax based lubricants just are not refined enough yet to be used on firearms with complete success.


Alcohol should fix it. I have not messed with it yet, but the upper was "glued" to the lower, and the safety selector had no palpable detent positions.

The 1500+ rounds of suppressed Wolf on the MPRO7 LPX lubed gun...THAT was a nightmare.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
As to your allegations about Froglube, it was produced by Trillium Solutions by Scott Lee. They are a legitimate company, making legitimate products. People like Larry Lasky were just "faces", and people who tried to use those products on firearms...where they worked fine until they polymerized and gunked up.


"Frog Lube" is nothing more than roller coaster track lubricant. It was conveniently scented with mint, colored green, and repackaged as a firearms lubricant. Then marketed by an ex "operator" as a way of attracting firearms enthusiasts to purchase it. Which is why I call it "Fraud Lube". It is a vegetable based oil / grease, much like "Fireclean", and has zero business on ANY firearm. If you look on every bottle of Fireclean sold, it has a "use by" date on it. The stuff will spoil. Hardly anything you should be putting on ANY firearm. Especially one that is going to be stored for any length of time.

I agree with you about reviews. I don't buy firearm lubrication products based on reviews either. My point in sighting reviews about Weapon Shield products was if Weapon Shield caused "metal fatigue", rusting or corrosion because of what it contains, you would have heard about it by now. It is in enough peoples hands, over a long enough period of time, that any negative effects of it's use would have surfaced by now. None have. So there is no point in carrying on about something that there is no evidence of ever taking place. I convinced myself about Weapon Shield's positive properties in my above post about bolt lug lubrication. That was enough to keep me as a customer convinced of it's ability as a superior lubricant, over any and all others I've tried.


FIREClean does not have a use-by date. Such is absent from any bottle of it I own and have owned. However...it sure "spoiled" on my Dad's rifle.

I find your story/observations of WS and the bolt issue interesting. Like I say, I have found its lubrication qualities average at best, but cannot speak to "wear prevention" or "anti-corrosion" as I have not got enough rounds with it, yet.
 
Ws6,

If I may say so, that bolt carrier group and lower look bone dry, and lacking ANY lubrication. Naturally it's going to be difficult to clean. AR-15 rifles will always run better, and be easier to clean, if they're run wet with lubrication. Especially from a clean up standpoint. I ALWAYS keep the upper, lower, and the bolt carrier group wet with lubricant. I think the issues you are having are from a lack of lubricant, rather than using the wrong one. If you follow this, I doubt your problems with difficult cleaning will continue..... Regardless of what lube you choose to use.



 
Originally Posted By: Ws6
FIREClean does not have a use-by date. Such is absent from any bottle of it I own and have owned. However...it sure "spoiled" on my Dad's rifle.


I'm afraid it does. In this test of it against Weapon Shield, he mentions the, "Use Within One Year Of Purchase", marked on the bottle at 1:30 in the video, and again at 2:15. The stuff is made from Canola Oil, so it stands to reason it will spoil over time. Canola Oil is a food product.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
I convinced myself about Weapon Shield's positive properties in my above post about bolt lug lubrication.

Uhm, this right here is my point. Evangelize all you want, it reads just like the guys that bought Frog Lube or Fire Clean 2 years ago. I still chuckle thinking about all the poor guys sitting with a hair dryer trying to heat up their guns to "condition the metal" in preparation for Frog Lube. They convinced themselves that because of all those extra steps, the "process" was making a difference. Turns out that even the roller coaster track lube doesn't recommend heating the metal, it was just a bunk claim from Frog Lube to make it seem special.....sound familiar?

Militec1 still gets great reviews too. I'll continue to point out that most people buy something and will go to great lengths to justify their purchase. They want other people to buy it too because it reinforces their decision.

I like how we've gone from "this falex test shows me why I should use Weapon Shield." OK, here's some shampoo, that does even better on the falex test. Where's the thread about shampoo and bolt lug lubrication? I take it you haven't managed to convince yourself of the Head & Shoulders revolution yet? It's bio degradable and has a nice scent. All we need is a retired Navy Seal to put their stamp of approval on it.

Then we start down the path "it gets great reviews, that's good enough for me, all of those reviewers must know something." OH wait, Fire Clean gets good reviews too? And one of our own members posts pics showing Fire Clean gumming up a rifle? Well, scratch that.

Now we're down to "it works OK on my bolt action rifle". 5 star review on Midway, here I come! Obviously it's superior in every way! Sign me up!

I think I've managed to convince myself that you're only high on the product because you've managed to convince yourself.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 90crvtec
Evangelize all you want, it reads just like the guys that bought Frog Lube or Fire Clean 2 years ago. I still chuckle thinking about all the poor guys sitting with a hair dryer trying to heat up their guns to "condition the metal" in preparation for Frog Lube. They convinced themselves that because of all those extra steps, the "process" was making a difference.


Not hardly. I can all but guarantee you my difficult bolt lift would have continued with either Frog Lube or Fireclean. I direct tested Weapon Shield at the range in a comparative test on bolt lugs. What I though was ammo that was loaded too hot, turned out to be nothing more than inferior lubrication. Hard bolt lift without, easy bolt lift with. Period, end of story.

No hair dryers. No "conditioning the metal" with food grade lubricant. No salesmanship bull$h!t. No "extra steps". Instead an actual problem solved with better lubricant. Just what the he!! proof are you looking for? I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else of anything. I'm giving you a direct comparative result that personally shocked the he!! out of me. When this happened, I never though that using a different lubricant would cure it. So much so I tried Slip 2000 EWL to prove to myself it wasn't the Weapon Shield. It didn't work because the same problem resurfaced. It again immediately went away when the Weapon Shield was reapplied. I have been shooting for over 45 years. And in that time I have NEVER had a product stand out like that. Nothing even close.
 
Originally Posted By: 90crvtec
Where's the thread about shampoo and bolt lug lubrication?


Perhaps you should start one, since you seem to be convinced it's better. Have you tested it on bolt lugs?
 
You would solve that "difficult bolt lift" with special malossi cvt grease....wich is basically lithium grease loaded with PTFE
smile.gif


Or with bar oil mixed with LM MoS2

Or....with any grease/oil loaded with AW stuff...that will reduce friction on your bolt...and is not too tacky!

No need for pricy super duper weapon lubes
smile.gif
 
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