Old school (ethanol) and (leaded) fuels

[mjoekingz28]

I was born in 81, and I barely remember seeing any mention of leaded fuel.

Last night I was looking at our new Sunoco pumps and they mention the 'up to 10% ethanol' may be a problem for mid 1980s and older vehicles. Why is that? What harm is the ethanol?

Also, when removing lead from our fuel supply, what exactly happened?
Did we just simply lose a performance enhancer?

--OR--

Did losing lead somehow cause harm, ie compatability with carbs, injectors, fuel lines, leaving deposits?

Basically, why can ethanol be bad for cars over 30 years old

And

Did saying bye-bye to leaded gasoline do any harm (or was it a win-win)?

 

[NHGUY]

Lead gave lubrication to valves,and kept seats from wearing excessively.And boosted octane E10 is bad for old hoses,gaskets,rubber diaphrams,etc.Of course if the car is 30+ years old,it needs all that stuff replaced anyway.

 

[mjoekingz28]

Thanks New Hampshire!

 

[xxch4osxx]

I think it was a good thing stopping lead from being burned and put into our atmosphere.

 

[Wolf359]

Basically cars back then weren't designed with E10 in mind, in later years car makers beefed things up a little so that E10 was ok. At one point they were going to go with E15 which was supposed to be ok for cars after 2001, but there was a big uproar by some car makers who thought it might still cause problems so nothing ever happened with it.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Remember "back then" fuel pumps were diaphragm style. Pump diaphragms due to the fact that they change contour in the course of pumping motion, if not designed for high ethanol concentrations could harden and crack=fail.

Carburetors were made from alloys of Zinc and Aluminum, both of which are susceptible to corrosive properties of Ethanol.

Did I mention that Ethanol is CORROSIVE?

In the mid 80s the manufacturers of fuel hoses, pumps, carbs etc. went to a new formula rubber that is more resistant to ethanol and other chemicals that are in almost all motor fuels these days. That's not to say that you won't ever have any trouble with the newer stuff but it is much better than the old formula rubber that may still be on some older cars. Any rubber parts in your fuel or brake systems that are older than 10 or 15 years should probably be replaced anyway.

 

[Dufus2]

The biggest issue is with cast valve seats sticking to hot valves. Newer engines all have hardened valve seats to remedy the lubricant issue. If you add a small amount of 2-cycle oil (500:1) the valve wear is nearly eliminated, this is needed with vintage automobiles and there is also an oiling system to use MMO

Check out the info here http://ampcolubes.com/home/benefits

 

[Boomer]

Tetraethyl lead burned to produce lead oxide, a white powder that coated valves and valve seats and prevented one from "welding" to the other. However, you could not let this lead oxide build up or you would eventually choke the engine. Scavengers like ethylene dibromide were added to convert the lead oxide to volatile lead bromide. This, in turn, reacted with moisture from combustion to form plumbic and plumbous acids and ate away the exhaust system. All in all, nasty stuff. It did, however, significantly raise the octane value of gasoline up to about 4 grams per gallon.

When lead was removed, then induction hardened valves and valve seats were used and the valve burning was no longer a real issue.
Fuels were reformulated with higher octane components like highly branched hydrocarbons and aromatics.

Tetraethyl lead is a viscous, extremely toxic liquid. The lead compounds that were spewed into the atmosphere mainly ended up in the soil and wines produced during the time of lead use show lead content in the beverage. Fortunately, enough time has now passed that the lead in the soil has been leached deep enough by rain and surface water that it no longer seems to be entering the food chain the way it once did.

 

[Chris142]

There is some evidence that points to leaded gas and Alzheimer's.

 

[TiredTrucker]

George Carlin also did a news clip one time that stated something like... Scientists have determined that saliva causes stomach cancer.... however, only when swallowed in small amounts over a long period of time.