FWD vs AWD. Is it worth it?

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Originally Posted By: dblshock
they have so much tax money here they're out before, during and after the storms hit. Rare to see more that a couple inches accumulate in the worst 12" plus events.

None of these AWD systems with 8" clearance will go up a grade in 12" of snow.


They will with Subaru or in my finding Acura sh-awd with traction control disabled if snow consistency is not extremely heavy. Our old family place with open field would drift in and off we went thru. It separated the men from boys awd...... The hill climb was 500' elevation over 1 mile with steep sections on gravel to property....

Awd has vastly improved in the last 5 years where for example a friends early 2000 highlander was garbage in deep snow to the 2014 which zipped thru.
 
Most +12" snow events around here are the wet heavy type and your just a little over exuberant thinking your Subaru AWD somehow grows wings to plow through that when it's deeper that the door sills....hope your a AAA member, have another marley, roflmao.
 
awd is poor on snow/ice unless you have a center lock, in my experience. Especially with improper tyres. Grip changes from front to rear as the AWD engages/disengages resulting in under- and oversteer usually both in the same corner...
 
Originally Posted By: CKN
I have a 2012 Legacy bought new. It will go through a foot of snow or so without issue with all season tires.


2012 Legacy:
subaru-legacy-2012-12.jpg


Overall tire diameter is around 25", which would place a "foot of snow or so" at hub height (half-way up the wheel). Everyone feel free to draw a line in your head around the car at that height and then evaluate the truthfulness of that claim.

Some super-dry, fluffy powder that can be cleaned off the driveway with nothing more than a snowblower? Sure, you'll plow through. Otherwise, it's not happening at an actual foot deep, nor would the body appreciate such an attempt.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: CKN
I have a 2012 Legacy bought new. It will go through a foot of snow or so without issue with all season tires.


2012 Legacy:
subaru-legacy-2012-12.jpg


Overall tire diameter is around 25", which would place a "foot of snow or so" at hub height (half-way up the wheel). Everyone feel free to draw a line in your head around the car at that height and then evaluate the truthfulness of that claim.

Some super-dry, fluffy powder that can be cleaned off the driveway with nothing more than a snowblower? Sure, you'll plow through. Otherwise, it's not happening at an actual foot deep, nor would the body appreciate such an attempt.


It depends on the snow density for sure, but a foot of most new snow isn't a terrible obstacle with 4 tires pullling on flat ground atleast. IMO the low speed or uphill climbing ability of 4wd/Awd even with all seasons, is better than 2wd with snows.
We had terrible 3 season tires on our old Tracker for a few winters and got in and out of our hilly driveway everytime easily. With fwd and snows something like 8" of wet snow on the hardpack snow under it will stop every fwd car I've owned, so I've had to walk in usually once a year anyways...
At speed though on the highway, I'll take better tires over drive systems.
 
In a fresh, fairly dry snow, my FWD Mazda 3 equipped with 4 winter tires had no trouble plowing through about a foot of snow. The bottom floor boards were definitely dragging on the snow and the front bumper was plowing about half its height worth of snow.

It's not as big of a deal as Subaru commercials make it out to be.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
but a foot of most new snow isn't a terrible obstacle with 4 tires pullling on flat ground atleast.


If the Subaru rocker panels/bumper were about a foot higher, I'd be in agreement.

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
my FWD Mazda 3 equipped with 4 winter tires had no trouble plowing through about a foot of snow.


I'm curious if you share the same definition of "foot of snow" as this guy here...
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: CKN
I have a 2012 Legacy bought new. It will go through a foot of snow or so without issue with all season tires.


2012 Legacy:
subaru-legacy-2012-12.jpg


Overall tire diameter is around 25", which would place a "foot of snow or so" at hub height (half-way up the wheel). Everyone feel free to draw a line in your head around the car at that height and then evaluate the truthfulness of that claim.

Some super-dry, fluffy powder that can be cleaned off the driveway with nothing more than a snowblower? Sure, you'll plow through. Otherwise, it's not happening at an actual foot deep, nor would the body appreciate such an attempt.


It depends on the snow density for sure, but a foot of most new snow isn't a terrible obstacle with 4 tires pullling on flat ground atleast. IMO the low speed or uphill climbing ability of 4wd/Awd even with all seasons, is better than 2wd with snows.
We had terrible 3 season tires on our old Tracker for a few winters and got in and out of our hilly driveway everytime easily. With fwd and snows something like 8" of wet snow on the hardpack snow under it will stop every fwd car I've owned, so I've had to walk in usually once a year anyways...
At speed though on the highway, I'll take better tires over drive systems.



The snow in Utah is the light fluffy type. Were kind of famous among skiers for it (the state motto - "The greatest snow on Earth!")....And yes the Subaru WILL GO THROUGH a foot of it without issues.

There you go Ramblejam-dblshock (scroll one-third way down)
http://visual.ly/why-utah-has-greatest-snow-earth
 
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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: CKN
I have a 2012 Legacy bought new. It will go through a foot of snow or so without issue with all season tires.


2012 Legacy:
subaru-legacy-2012-12.jpg


Overall tire diameter is around 25", which would place a "foot of snow or so" at hub height (half-way up the wheel). Everyone feel free to draw a line in your head around the car at that height and then evaluate the truthfulness of that claim.

Some super-dry, fluffy powder that can be cleaned off the driveway with nothing more than a snowblower? Sure, you'll plow through. Otherwise, it's not happening at an actual foot deep, nor would the body appreciate such an attempt.


It depends on the snow density for sure, but a foot of most new snow isn't a terrible obstacle with 4 tires pullling on flat ground atleast. IMO the low speed or uphill climbing ability of 4wd/Awd even with all seasons, is better than 2wd with snows.
We had terrible 3 season tires on our old Tracker for a few winters and got in and out of our hilly driveway everytime easily. With fwd and snows something like 8" of wet snow on the hardpack snow under it will stop every fwd car I've owned, so I've had to walk in usually once a year anyways...
At speed though on the highway, I'll take better tires over drive systems.



THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Originally Posted By: CKN
The snow in Utah is the light fluffy type. Were kind of famous among skiers for it (the state motto - "The greatest snow on Earth!")....And yes the Subaru WILL GO THROUGH a foot of it without issues.

Again, there isn't any doubt about the ability of your Subaru to navigate through snow that doesn't even present a challenge to a handheld leaf blower. With that said, I suspect your claimed foot is similar to what we see in the video above...measured in highly calibrated internet inches.

As a first responder, I'm out in the worst of weather; although it's historically rare for us, we had two snows last year and one so far this year that legitimately dumped >12" of snow on the roadways.

I've yet to see any car, including all with AWD (Subaru, Mercedes, etc.) successfully drive in it to any degree -- they simply lack the clearance to do so, and become lodged/high-centered in no time.

Once it's been packed/knocked down to an acceptable height, they do a great job though.
 
My bicycle would go through that panzie snow, I'm talking the type of snow that terrorizes women into buying Subaru's, the kind that weighs 40lbs. a shovel full...pack'n snow, snowman snow.
 
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Originally Posted By: dblshock
My bicycle would go through that panzie snow, I'm talking the type of snow that terrorizes women into buying Subaru's, the kind that weighs 40lbs. a shovel full...pack'n snow, snowman snow.


I've read your posts and I'm not sure what you're getting at. You seem to be simply hating on Subies, as if they're all the same and all of their drivers are young punks who can't tell what 5" of snow looks like.

My '97 Legacy GT with all-season Hankooks would do as well, if not better, than my current '08 Civic with Conti snows; the Hankooks weren't too bad in the snow at all.

My '08 Civic with Conti snows made it out of a parking spot adjacent to where our '14 Forester with the stock all-season Geolanders (and X-mode AWD logic) got stuck. The Forester got high-centered and didn't have the momentum to move more than a few feet, whereas the Civic, with the extra grip and the benefit of the two feet of clearance I shoveled in front of it, was able to literally plow through the snow, even though it was higher than the door sills.

In the end, three things matter when it comes to safely getting through winter weather, in order of importance:

1. Traction

2. Ride Height

3. Drive wheels

If you've got bald track slicks, it doesn't matter what you're driving, you're going to slip and slide; however, the best winter tires won't matter if the snow is too dense to plow through and/or drive over. If you're riding high enough and have the grippiest tires, but the one wheel that has power is spinning at near-zero traction, what does it really matter?

In the end, SOME Subarus have close to 9" of ground clearance, with more in front of the tires (as do some other cute utes with competent AWD systems,) and they will do very well in the snow, with snow tires, compared to a very large majority of other vehicles on the road that aren't quite so well prepared.

I'll reiterate here that I drive a 2008 Civic and haven't had any problems through the past few winters, with winter tires. I would have preferred to drive the Subie, also with winter tires, but it didn't have winter tires until this year, because it didn't need to be driven in bad weather at that time. Now that I have a dedicated winter setup for the Subie, I will drive it to work for anything more than 4-6" of snow on the ground, because it's nerve-wracking feeling the snow literally scrubbing the bottom of the car...
 
Subaru seems to be the cars to hate here on BITOG. The are right up there with Chinese tires.

I guess they (Subarus) are just not 12 year old Crown Vics......with Michelin tires.
 
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The location and number of drive wheels is much like selecting an oil and its OCI- select the configuration that suits your comfort level.
 
Originally Posted By: CKN
Subaru seems to be the cars to hate here on BITOG. The are right up there with Chinese tires.

I guess they (Subarus) are just not 12 year old Crown Vics......with Michelin tires.




It seems that way, although I'm not quite sure why. If you want a solid, new, wagon-like vehicle for under $30K there aren't too many options. I don't need AWD but it met all of my other criteria (including heated cloth seats) so it's just an added bonus.
 
I just got back from Minnesota and AWD's are popular up there due to snow. For the west tip of KY and the fact we buy used the AWD is just a feature not worth the potential cost to maintain in my view.

Subaru makes a fine vehicle but are not too common in these parts. If I needed traction I would go with one if priced right and in great condition.
 
Originally Posted By: dblshock
My bicycle would go through that panzie snow, I'm talking the type of snow that terrorizes women into buying Subaru's, the kind that weighs 40lbs. a shovel full...pack'n snow, snowman snow.


We got 10" last Friday of such snow that rolling a snowman by kids actually exposed the grass near clean due to wet/heaviness of it. I backed out of our unplowed driveway and up a bit of an incline without major drama in our 2005 Legacy wagon with a meager 6" of clearance on all-seasons and thru the snowbank left by plow that over bumper.

I understand why you have you a 2wd Highlander because the AWD in that vintage is absolute trash btorque to rear wheels when needed and too late. Subaru just happens to split torque full time at expense of MPG and needed matched tires.

I think folks buy Subaru mainly due to wagon form, excellent AWD, lower cost and okay reliability. My wife chose hers only for wagon and the 250HP WRX engine coupled to manual transmission. The AWD is just icing on cake to her.
 
Originally Posted By: CKN
Subaru seems to be the cars to hate here on BITOG.


It probably seems that way if you own one. I've seen a TON of Subaru praise on here, too.

Folks have said that BITOG is also very anti-domestic, anti-Japanese, anti-foreign, and anti- just about everything.

It all depends on where you stand.
 
AWD w/snow tires > FWD w/snow tires > AWD w/all seasons > FWD w/all seasons

That said, I'd choose AWD if I lived where it snows because it's more fun, and it offers some convenience advantages. Even down in Texas I kind of wish my GTI was AWD because first and second gear are useless at full throttle.
 
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