With a barrel of oil dropping like a rock......

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy

Does that 3.44 cP HTHS round up to 3.5 (and a pass) or 3.4 (a fail)?

Does that 45.5 mg TEOST round down to 45 (a pass) or round up to 46 (a fail)?

This test has failed three times. So and so lab has an easy test stand, can we run there?

Can you dilute the VII in this specific base oil (yeah we know it's different but it's okay)

We need a complete set of seals for this OEM meeting by the end of the month and they have to pass.

It starts off small and grows...everyone's happy except you.

Stand up and say so and so is a cheat and should be sacked. Prepare to stand alone in the face of the biggest sh1tstorm of your career.

Just sayin'...


Now you are confusing accepted codes of practice and test reproducibility with deliberate cheating.

TEOST is always an issue with you guys
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy

And please, reputable companies, like VAG for example? In my experience, it's the reputable companies that are the worst!
Maybe if you got out more, you'd understand these things...


VAG is a reputable company, at least as much as MOST people in it are as honest as anybody.

And I must need to get out more too, since I've not seen rampant corruption, only occasional bad ethics, in my part of the engineering world.

Some of your examples showed minor test repeatability issues, on the margins, not that bad.
Seems the product gets out there, and a company could get caught, via chemical analysis or other audits which could catch unethical behavior.

For example, I've heard the Exxon-Mobil oil engineering tech facility on the east coast (U.S) sometimes tests competitor's oils. I'm assuming other big companies might once in a while. Potential to get caught is there.

I'm wondering how often it happens though.
 
From Mobil's website:

Quote:
Taking oil for a test drive
About 500 formulations are blended each month at the Paulsboro Technical Center. Our flagship products consists of about 15 to 20 hand selected components, which consist of synthetic base stocks and performance additives that address the demanding operating environments of today’s machines. Real-world testing begins at PTC, where candidate formulations are put through extreme tests in rigs, engines and vehicles which simulate high-speed, high-load and high-temperature environments. After testing, engines are disassembled and digital microscopes are used to inspect part surfaces for wear.

In another area of the center, vehicles of every make and model are strapped to dynamometers to test oil blends, sometimes against competitive brands. Cycles can be custom-programmed to generate data for high speeds, stop-and-go traffic, long durations, or any combination of driving conditions.

Production equipment at the plant can blend up to 300 gallons per minute and dispense Mobil oil into anything ranging from plastic quart bottles to tank railcars. From Paulsboro, the oil carries more than 40 years of research and development to consumers, shops and race teams around the world, delivering an advanced formula that’s proven to keep engines running like new]
 
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy

And please, reputable companies, like VAG for example? In my experience, it's the reputable companies that are the worst!
Maybe if you got out more, you'd understand these things...


VAG is a reputable company, at least as much as MOST people in it are as honest as anybody.

And I must need to get out more too, since I've not seen rampant corruption, only occasional bad ethics, in my part of the engineering world.

Some of your examples showed minor test repeatability issues, on the margins, not that bad.
Seems the product gets out there, and a company could get caught, via chemical analysis or other audits which could catch unethical behavior.

For example, I've heard the Exxon-Mobil oil engineering tech facility on the east coast (U.S) sometimes tests competitor's oils. I'm assuming other big companies might once in a while. Potential to get caught is there.

I'm wondering how often it happens though.


Get caught at what?
 
One item i have not seen discussed is the economic factor of lubricating oil purchases via 'futures.'

Many times lube oil is bought in large quantities at price X and until the inventory of the price oil X oil is depleted, the finished oil prices remain high.

However, it does seem suspect that these current finished oil prices do seem to show a significant 'lag' in price drop of late.
 
So, who tracks international forex rates? Who tracks silicon prices? Or orange juice futures? Or PTA bulk prices?

All of these things (and many more) make an impact on the stuff you take for granted. And all of them fluctuate. The thing is, because it is not big news, you neither see nor care about them and are happy to pay a price based on the item itself - what it means to you, your perceived value of its instrinsic worth, not a bottom-up breakdown of production, manufacturing, shipping, distribution, marketing and sales costs.

So why apply that approach to arguably the most important part in your engine?

And if you must track input costs, maybe take a look at the prices that the suppliers of base oils and additives are asking. Few engine oils suppliers actually use their own base oils and/or additives, so they are bought from specialist suppliers, who buy in raw materials and make a useful end product, and turn a buck whilst doing it.

Then think about the cost of running the development programs. Engine tests are not cheap and you have to run a lot of them. Going further to develop and implement any differentiation capability is an additional cost. You are not buying a mixture of raw materials, you are buying a level of performance appropriate to your needs.

The difference in price of an iPhone 6s 16GB to a 128GB is $200. You think there is $200-worth of extra memory in there? $200-worth of silicon, copper, aluminium, germanium etc? No. What there is is $200-worth of capability that you and I choose to pay for. And we don't take to guyisthephonedood.com to clamour for price reductions when the cost of materials fall.

The cost of keeping up with the industry is accelerating - there are more tests to do, more specs to cover and they are getting tougher to achieve.

This intended as a somewhat extreme counterpoint to the argument that crude oil cost must drive engine oil price, if anything to offer food for thought. If you are still convinced that engine oil is a simple commodity mixture then go and get yourself some crude oil, put together your own mixture and let us know how it goes.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
.Get caught at what?

I strayed off topic, sorry for the confusion, although I blame Joe90_guy & bobbydavro.
28.gif

Anyway, maybe a thread all its own, I was referring to the scenario already discussed above where an oil is given to a test lab for cert tests, and the oil's owner is worried one or more tests won't pass, so the formulation is spiked with esters/PAO/GroupIII, whatever premium non-production chemicals that might make the oil pass all tests, even though that's not the mass production recipe.
 
Each test is likely to be run on a different formulation / batch / viscosity grade and often different test houses used for different tests.

A program can cover 1 or 10 commercial oils, depending upon the nature of the development.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
From Mobil's website:

Quote:
Taking oil for a test drive
About 500 formulations are blended each month at the Paulsboro Technical Center. Our flagship products consists of about 15 to 20 hand selected components, which consist of synthetic base stocks and performance additives that address the demanding operating environments of today’s machines. Real-world testing begins at PTC, where candidate formulations are put through extreme tests in rigs, engines and vehicles which simulate high-speed, high-load and high-temperature environments. After testing, engines are disassembled and digital microscopes are used to inspect part surfaces for wear.

In another area of the center, vehicles of every make and model are strapped to dynamometers to test oil blends, sometimes against competitive brands. Cycles can be custom-programmed to generate data for high speeds, stop-and-go traffic, long durations, or any combination of driving conditions.

Production equipment at the plant can blend up to 300 gallons per minute and dispense Mobil oil into anything ranging from plastic quart bottles to tank railcars. From Paulsboro, the oil carries more than 40 years of research and development to consumers, shops and race teams around the world, delivering an advanced formula that’s proven to keep engines running like new]


What a place that must be. Considering future requirements my first request among many would be: take me to your start-stop engine test stand and tell me about how many stops and starts will happen on the Atlanta (pick your own) commute (one and a half to two hours each way) and what the effect is on durability. Just a thought.
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
http://www.castrol.com/en_au/australia/p...tart-index.html

Atlanta isn't on their unfortunately. Only New York and LA


They mention "long periods of idling" in their verbiage. I wonder if the stop-start index they are talking about is really stop and go?


No, it's all starts, including stop and go...



Sorry for any confusion but what I was referring to are those future vehicles (some current I know) whose engines turn off at each stop and then restart on application of throttle. It was the testing of that regime that I would dearly love to see the results of on Mobil's engine stand. There are many issues involved there other than simply "oil" but my curiosity was simply about what that does to engine durability.
 
Thought I would revive this. Schaeffer just dropped the pricing of some of their oil products. The HDEO 10w30 syn blend I was getting for roughly $19 a gallon just went to $16.21 a gallon. Even some full synthetics dropped a little, and a full synthetic 5w30 HDEO is cheaper than what I was paying before for the 10w30 syn blend product. Check with a rep.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
Oil dipstick on my dirty engine Hemi charger after 500 miles of Valvoline Restore and Protect
3 4 5
Replies
89
Views
13K
MrBaumTastic
J
Oil cooler after engine break down
Replies
9
Views
926
edyvw
M
OEM Oil Spec: Same Engine, Different Market
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
kschachn
Sweebation
What oil to use in 2005 6spd corvette
Replies
17
Views
606
twX
P
  • Locked
Can oil dilution cause a gasoline engine to rapidly consume oil?
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
M56959
Back
Top