Motosel 5W30 Syn Blend / 15W40 HDEO VOA 1-28-16

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Farmer

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Here's the "great" oils that Motosel makes. Was really hoping to see a 10TBN on the HDEO. I guess not. Isn't zddp supposed to be less than 850PPM to meet API SN?

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Here's what they claim.

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This is what ALS uses for test methods.

TEST METHODS:
Acid Number: ASTM D974/D664
Base Number: ASTM D4739
Base Number (Perchloric): ASTM D2896
Fuel Dilution by GC: ASTM D3524/D7593
Fuel Dilution Visc/Setaflash ASTM D445/D7279/D3828
Fuel Soot ATR/IR: ASTM D7686
Glycol: ASTM D2982
Metals by ICP AES: ASTM D5185
Ox, NOx, SOx, FTIR: ASTM D7418/D7414/D7415/D7624
Particle Count: ASTM D7647 / ISO 11500, 4406
Water KF: ASTM E203 Mod / D6304C
Water Crackle: In House
Viscosity: ASTM D445 / D7279
 
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Originally Posted By: Farmer
Isn't zddp supposed to be less than 850PPM to meet API SN?

That restriction does not apply to Xw-40 grades.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Farmer
Isn't zddp supposed to be less than 850PPM to meet API SN?

That restriction does not apply to Xw-40 grades.


5W30, 968PPM Zinc.
 
Don't think it matters to be honest. Food for thought; M1 0w40 is SN just not "resource conserving". Riddle me that Batman
 
Originally Posted By: car51
Food for thought; M1 0w40 is SN just not "resource conserving". Riddle me that Batman

Whats the issue? SN and resource conserving are two different things.
 
Originally Posted By: Farmer
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Farmer
Isn't zddp supposed to be less than 850PPM to meet API SN?

That restriction does not apply to Xw-40 grades.


5W30, 968PPM Zinc.

The limit is on phosphorus, AFAIK.
 
Hopefully sir Garak can enlighten me in "the issue"



I just ask why is M1 0w40 SN approved. Could care less about the b.s. about resource conserving. If they ARE in fact 2 different things; please discuss
 
Originally Posted By: car51
No issue. Just want to know how M1 0w40 is SN

Api SN only limits additive levels on Xw-20 and Xw-30 grades. So an oil like m1 0w-40 can have a rich add pack and still be compliant with api sn.
 
Originally Posted By: car51
QuattroPete: is there a Phos or zinc limit on 0w30 or 0w20 oils? Feel dumb asking

I just answered that few posts above.
 
In all honesty, api SN is weak sauce compared to some of the other approvals that m1 0w-40 carries. People dont buy m1 0w-40 for its api rating.
 
Originally Posted By: car51
I just ask why is M1 0w40 SN approved.

Quattro Pete is correct. 40 grades don't face the ILSAC type phosphorus limits (which are the SN phosphorus limits), which SN 30 and 20 grades do, unless they're CJ-4/SN or CJ-4/SM, which is another exception. That's while you'll see GC 0w-30 and Castrol 5w-30 A3/B4 as SL or whatever, but not SM or SN, while M1 0w-40 is SN, even though they could have identical phosphorus limits. The only way that GC 0w-30 could call itself SN would be if it were CJ-4/SN, and its SA is too high for CJ-4.

An even better example would be that GC 0w-30 and GC 0w-40 could have identical additive packages, but the former cannot show SM or SN, while the latter can, because 30 is an ILSAC grade, whether ILSAC approved or not, and a 40 is not.

Farmer: Thanks for that. It looks better than I thought. I guess we can give them credit for that. However, that's a very, very basic HDEO, and I hope they're not claiming it's an E7, E9 HDEO, because it's clearly not with that low TBN. And that 5w-30 isn't exactly a ringer, either. Different TBN testing methods were used than their sheets, but still, neither method is going to magically change the HDEO into an E7, E9 nor the PCMO into Amsoil SS.

I doubt they have Imperial Oil quaking in their boots.
 
Quote:
Isn't zddp supposed to be less than 850PPM to meet API SN?


A common misconception is the ZDDP is 850 PPM because you see the zinc or phos at 850 ppm.

ZDDP is a molecule composed of Zinc, sulfur, and phosphorus atoms.

So it is incorrect to say that this oil XX contains 850 ppm of ZDDP when you see 850 ppm of phos or zinc.

What you are seeing is a reporting of only two of the individual atoms out of the three atoms making up ZDDP.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
In all honesty, api SN is weak sauce compared to some of the other approvals that m1 0w-40 carries. People dont buy m1 0w-40 for its api rating.


And apparently no longer for its LL-01 rating either
wink.gif
 
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