FWD vs AWD. Is it worth it?

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Had a FWD Pontiac Vibe and now have an AWD Pontiac Vibe. Both are amazing in snow. AWD is a lot more controllable and super tail happy! Both were on all seasons. We don't get much snow here in Greensboro/Charlotte, but I do go up north quite often just to enjoy snow in mountains and visit friends. Like I said - both FWD and AWD perform amazing in snow! Now I would have no problem going to FWD because when there is no snow - it gets 3mpg better than AWD on average. Highway mileage per gallon is the same on both. So there you go. But I also have a RWD and I drove that thing in snow in mountains with all-seasons. And that thing was a beast as well because Lexus did a great job on traction systems. Once I press the "snow" button on the shifter - it starts from a stop in second gear which gives bunch of traction by itself, and it constantly "catches" the rear before I could even realize that the rear is drifting. Love it. Between three - AWD is the funnest and most stable in snow, FWD is very capable, but boring, and RWD is surprisingly good, especially when I was passing 4x4s going up a 30-35ish-degree incline from a dead stop.
 
Not all AWD systems are equal... Do your homework before you buy.
As well AWD is not generally the same as 4X4.
I think the Jeep website has some good explanations
 
The iVTM-4 system in the Pilot is, from what I understand, mostly a renamed version of the torque-vectoring SH-AWD system from the MDX. It transforms a large FWD-based vehicle into something that can really hustle.
 
One thing about SUV's is the value is considerably less FWD/2wd in my locale. SUV's are considerably more desirable AWD/4WD used vs FWD.....You tend not to lose much on upfront cost when it comes to ease of resale or trade in. My mother in law bought a locale pariah of SUV. A 06 Saturn VUE 4 cylinder FWD with only 40k/4.5 years old for $5k because dealer was going to wholesale it off. Maybe also because it excudes a feeling of cheapness like no other vehicle despite it being "loaded".

With the typical 1-2MPG loss in modern AWD you have to figure it out.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: powayroger


Thinking about getting rid of my truck and civic and getting a SUV (See other posts about this). AWD is an option. Is it something that should be considered and is it worth it or should I just stick with FWD?

Proper winter tires are more important than awd, IMO.

I have rwd with winter tires, and i cant say that i miss awd much.


I did a winter driving course several years ago and the only car that spun out and repeatedly had trouble was a RWD Porsche with winter tires. He had to take it easy, while the other Subaru WRX and me, in my STI, were taking on the snowy hill there while in boost, as well as very good emergency handling. We all rode in each other's cars to get a feel for it, and the difference was pretty amazing.

The only car that couldn't make it up the hill the first few times, even with instructor driving, was a FWD Mazda 3 with AS tires. We were all kind of flabbergasted when we found out that that was the reason the car had to back down and gain more momentum.

The best performing cars, were my STI with LSD's and nearly new Blizzaks (kind of an unfair advantage) and an older Civic that seemed to power through everything, just as well as us AWD, winter tire-shod vehicles.

With that said, in the end, we were all AWS (all-wheel stop) and, while the heavier SUVs went better than the FWD cars, they stopped and turned way more poorly than the smaller, lighter, lower-CG vehicles.


Do you remember where this was? I'd love to do that course.
 
If you are staying on plowed roads of moderate slopes, then 2wd will be fine. If you are going on backroads with more hills and less plowing I'd get AWD of some sort, IMO they are all about the same for on road use, get whatever vehicle you like.
If you are going to do some off roading I'd get something that you can lock it into 4wd/AWD. Even a little tire spin to get some goofy AWD system to wake up and lock up can be annoying and expensive...
 
Very mixed feelings. I've owned 4x4, AWD, RWD and FWD vehicles. I've lived in the TN hills, DC snowbelt, and the south.

FWD can do 80% of what a solid AWD can do, and for most snows you never ever even touch that 80%. I just drove 300 miles through that mess that hit 2 weeks ago, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee... and the biggest danger I faced, dodged, and cussed, was other traffic as someone would lose control and pinball. In every case, FWD/AWD made no difference to me, as steering and braking remains unchanged.

Where AWD counts is hill climb. A subaru (I've owned 2) is a bullet in the snow. And the low CG and nimble size make them much more confident than a 4x4 if you have to hang it on the edge a little bit. Spin a 4x4, it's a mess and a liability. Spin a legacy and you counter steer and punch it and done right it comes right back.

The only time 4x4 to me has been a snow benefit is when it's too deep for a sedan. But really, your judgment comes into question if you're trying to get to a non-critical job in 14" of snow.

Plenty of skilled drivers drive FWD or RWD in the snow. They carry weight if they need to, and don't drive beyond their limit.
 
Originally Posted By: meep
the biggest danger I faced, dodged, and cussed, was other traffic as someone would lose control and pinball.


And therein lies the lesson....you can only go as fast and far as the useless idiot in front of you.

Might as well get a Prius.....
coffee2.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
The !echo! with CS5s ran like a champ.

[off-topic]
isn't it amazing how it is like a tank in snow with new CS5? i was amazed by my yaris sedan last year. (and the year before in my elantra with the CS4...)
now i probably drove total experience is half your echo miles, but here are some where they did not work:
-ice
-the first 10-20 yards before the stop to a major intersection (the pavement was lined with oils, tire particles.. whatever so it was smooth surface)
[/off-topic]
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Something I realized recently...

Most people have FWD or AWD cars, which they think are better in snow, and they still dread the snow.

My friends and I have RWD cars (some of them pretty tail-happy), and the first thing we want to do when it snows is get out and drive.

Go figure.


I love driving in the heavy snowstorms! Last snow storm my Focus passed an AWD GRAND CHEROKEE that couldn't get up a hill - the Grand Cherokee also had a running start that I did not!

I just put a front automatic locker in my Jeep. I want to see how bad it is going to be in the snow


I've always enjoyed the "challenge" of driving in snow. Only traffic bothers me, as traffic tends to keep the same distances as they would if there was no snow--or they are just going too slow.

Have to admit to turning off traction control lately and enjoying the result. I refer to it as moron mode.

I hated my truck with a/s, I felt how bad it was in RWD and had zero confidence in its handling, even if I put it into 4WD it'd still have the same lousy traction--and be all the easy to lose what little it had. Snows on it I don't think are optional. And I don't even that much power!

But I've done a/s on FWD in years past. It's not so bad. I prefer snows of course.

If I was stuck with just a/s I'd rather be stuck with FWD. AWD makes one cocky. "Oh I've got plenty of traction, I can always get moving" will eventually lead to "why doesn't it brake/steer/avoid?". All seasons on AWD IMO can lead to out-driving one's tires pretty easily.
 
Nothing could stop my old Forester in snow right up to the floor pan. Depending on the type of snow, sometimes even deeper. I also had few problems in FWD cars like the Sable, Impala, Grand Prix, etc with winter tires. All were company cars and all were equipped with winter tires. I covered Buffalo, Rochester, Erie and all of New England. Never get stuck in anything I had any business being out in.

And that's the key point. I'm not an ER doctor of a fire fighter. Like the vast majority of people, my job is simply not that critical to the world and no one dies if I stay home for the day. I can get by for a day without bread, milk and anything you can buy at the mall. How many days out of the typical winter is there actually enough snow on the ground to call for AWD? If more non-essential people would just stay off the roads until they are cleared, there would be little need for AWD vehicles in most metropolitan areas. My last company car was a FWD Equinox with whatever a/s tires came on it. It handled 6" of snow just fine, though I did have to turn off t/c to get up my street which is a pretty good hill.

As has already been discussed, the biggest safety issue isn't the road condition or your vehicle's drivetrain. It is everyone else on the road. I had both a '99 And an '01 Sable sideswiped by other drivers in the snow who were traveling too fast for conditions with less than ideal tires. I was having no issues, but even driving the best AWD vehicle with top of the line Nokian winter tires would have made no difference. One hit was at a traffic light at which I was already stopped. I used to think I had to be able to get around in just about any bad weather and spent good money to be prepared for it.

These days, I stay home if there is significant snow coming down. In the rare instance that I'm already out and completely surprised by heavy snow, I head home early. If it's really that bad, I get a hotel room. The cost of one night at the Hampton is minor compared with the aggravation of an insurance claim or the possibility of injury from the distracted mom in the Acadia who just has to get the kid to gymnastics regardless of road conditions. Or the guy who finally has a chance to go play in his Wrangler Rubicon.

So, my take is that a good AWD system is of great value if you MUST go out in bad weather or live somewhere that the roads are not well cleared. I suggest giving real thought to whether or not you fall into either category before spending the extra money, limiting your choices and accepting the compromises in fuel economy and additional maintenance/potential repair costs of buying an AWD vehicle for bad weather.
 
It's only worth it if you think it's worth it. Perception is everything if you want a soccer mom to buy one.
On the other hand, people that truly understand the benefits of AWD/4x4 and actually need them, have been driving these vehicles for decades, well before it became fashionable.
 
Whoever said don't buy AWD because of the added maintenance. It's $125.00 every 50,000 miles to change out the grease in the Subaru's AWD system at the dealer. Other than that, I know of NO owners who had to touch any other part of the system.

I have a 2012 Legacy bought new. It will go through a foot of snow or so without issue with all season tires. Stopping can be dicey though if your not careful. That's where snow tires would come in.
 
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Originally Posted By: madRiver
One thing about SUV's is the value is considerably less FWD/2wd in my locale. SUV's are considerably more desirable AWD/4WD used vs FWD.....You tend not to lose much on upfront cost when it comes to ease of resale or trade in. My mother in law bought a locale pariah of SUV. A 06 Saturn VUE 4 cylinder FWD with only 40k/4.5 years old for $5k because dealer was going to wholesale it off. Maybe also because it excudes a feeling of cheapness like no other vehicle despite it being "loaded".

With the typical 1-2MPG loss in modern AWD you have to figure it out.
It's the same way with trucks around here. A 5-10 year old 4x2 sells for a lot less than the comparable 4x4.

You get so much more versatility with a 4x4. An easy choice unless you know for sure you're never going to get off the pavement. Oddly, my Central FL truck was in an ice storm last year during a trip to E. TN. 4x4 came in handy there.
 
The driver has a lot to do with how any car will handle snow.

Even a Subaru will bite you with lift-off oversteer if you go into a corner a bit fast and panic instead of keeping a bit of power on and pointing it where you want to go. A FWD car will understeer with power and turn when you let off the throttle.

RWD with no weight over the back is probably the worst in snow but a lot of that is up to the driver and how sensitive their throttle foot is.
 
A lot depends upon where you live and the terrain.

For city dwellers the roads are pretty well plowed even during snow storms; unless it's extremely hilly all wheel drive may not make much difference. Out here our roads are plowed after the snow event, not during, and if there is no school we're toward the end of the list. Getting around out here during a good snowstorm usually isn't possible; being without all wheel drive simply isn't an option-there are hills and areas that drift too much for anything else.

Most of the time we simply stay at home during weather events, but there are the rare times that we're forced to go out or held over so we have to return home in the snow. Those times make the all wheel drive well worth it.
 
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
Nothing could stop my old Forester in snow right up to the floor pan. Depending on the type of snow, sometimes even deeper. I also had few problems in FWD cars like the Sable, Impala, Grand Prix, etc with winter tires. All were company cars and all were equipped with winter tires. I covered Buffalo, Rochester, Erie and all of New England. Never get stuck in anything I had any business being out in.

And that's the key point. I'm not an ER doctor of a fire fighter. Like the vast majority of people, my job is simply not that critical to the world and no one dies if I stay home for the day. I can get by for a day without bread, milk and anything you can buy at the mall. How many days out of the typical winter is there actually enough snow on the ground to call for AWD? If more non-essential people would just stay off the roads until they are cleared, there would be little need for AWD vehicles in most metropolitan areas. My last company car was a FWD Equinox with whatever a/s tires came on it. It handled 6" of snow just fine, though I did have to turn off t/c to get up my street which is a pretty good hill.

As has already been discussed, the biggest safety issue isn't the road condition or your vehicle's drivetrain. It is everyone else on the road. I had both a '99 And an '01 Sable sideswiped by other drivers in the snow who were traveling too fast for conditions with less than ideal tires. I was having no issues, but even driving the best AWD vehicle with top of the line Nokian winter tires would have made no difference. One hit was at a traffic light at which I was already stopped. I used to think I had to be able to get around in just about any bad weather and spent good money to be prepared for it.

These days, I stay home if there is significant snow coming down. In the rare instance that I'm already out and completely surprised by heavy snow, I head home early. If it's really that bad, I get a hotel room. The cost of one night at the Hampton is minor compared with the aggravation of an insurance claim or the possibility of injury from the distracted mom in the Acadia who just has to get the kid to gymnastics regardless of road conditions. Or the guy who finally has a chance to go play in his Wrangler Rubicon.

So, my take is that a good AWD system is of great value if you MUST go out in bad weather or live somewhere that the roads are not well cleared. I suggest giving real thought to whether or not you fall into either category before spending the extra money, limiting your choices and accepting the compromises in fuel economy and additional maintenance/potential repair costs of buying an AWD vehicle for bad weather.




A number of the medical professionals I know who might find themselves in a position where they have to get in regardless of the weather all drive Suburban's, Range Rovers, Toyota Land Cruisers, or 4x4 trucks.

Cause when Grandpa is coding you don't want to hear whoever they call is stuck in the snow in his FWD Camry.

During the blizzard we had up here a couple of years ago, my good friend got in with his Suburban to address a pacemaker issue that would have probably been life threatening. Than on his way home he pulled a state trooper in his Crown Vic off the highway.

For the rest of us, stay home, crack a few cold beers and watch some re runs.
 
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they have so much tax money here they're out before, during and after the storms hit. Rare to see more that a couple inches accumulate in the worst 12" plus events.

None of these AWD systems with 8" clearance will go up a grade in 12" of snow.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: powayroger


Thinking about getting rid of my truck and civic and getting a SUV (See other posts about this). AWD is an option. Is it something that should be considered and is it worth it or should I just stick with FWD?

Proper winter tires are more important than awd, IMO.

I have rwd with winter tires, and i cant say that i miss awd much.


I did a winter driving course several years ago and the only car that spun out and repeatedly had trouble was a RWD Porsche with winter tires. He had to take it easy, while the other Subaru WRX and me, in my STI, were taking on the snowy hill there while in boost, as well as very good emergency handling. We all rode in each other's cars to get a feel for it, and the difference was pretty amazing.

The only car that couldn't make it up the hill the first few times, even with instructor driving, was a FWD Mazda 3 with AS tires. We were all kind of flabbergasted when we found out that that was the reason the car had to back down and gain more momentum.

The best performing cars, were my STI with LSD's and nearly new Blizzaks (kind of an unfair advantage) and an older Civic that seemed to power through everything, just as well as us AWD, winter tire-shod vehicles.

With that said, in the end, we were all AWS (all-wheel stop) and, while the heavier SUVs went better than the FWD cars, they stopped and turned way more poorly than the smaller, lighter, lower-CG vehicles.


Do you remember where this was? I'd love to do that course.


https://teamoneil.com/driving-courses/
 
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