talent doesn't pay like it used to.

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Well, we have a few local dealerships trying to pay techs here at grease monkey prices! ( 10 bucks an hour) Not sure I would want someone making that working on my car-not sure how much of a good job they are going to do at that price!


So far, they have stayed out of trouble.....
 
Yes-the 'light-duty' techs as part of the multi-tier world. There are a zillion inequities in the world. Heck, I get irritated by all the longtime [removed] owned outfits like certain small roofing and glass outfits around me that give out the same old bid rates even as their old [removed] work force is gone and they grab up cheap latinos to do the work(mostly pretty good) and then pocket a larger profit. No, 'life ain't fair'.
 
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rooflessVW,

I post jobs for medical equipment repair, $20 for internship and then $25-26 an hour after 6 months. Just an associates degree needed.... Or military experience in repair/test/calibration of equipment.

I agree that companies want low paid techs, it's a revolving door of employees.
 
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
I own a landscaping business. I have one customer who negotiates on everything now. Makes it hard to price things cause I never know what random number he's going to come up with. He used to let me do they work and I'd send him a bill at the end of the month.
There's a certain cost of breaking even. On top of that is profit. You need to figure out what that is for your business and price accordingly.

As a business owner, you do have the right to say No to customers. When I operated my business, there are a few people I said No to. Further, I didn't get involved in letting customers drive me. My answer was "No Deal". A few later regretted going with others because the cheaper labor made a mess of either their installation or their house or both.

Not sure which end of the landscaping business you're in. Yard maintainence? Hardscapes? Plant layout & installation?

The "Mow, blow & go" outfits have made a mess of some neighbors yards. Why? Because most of what they cut is St. Augustine under big oak trees or cedar elms. They Blow all the grass off, which over time, eliminates the top soil, leaving bare, hard, heavy-clay. They also cut the grass way too short. Further, some bring disease in from other yards and because they don't regularly sharpen their mower blades, shread the tops of the grass instead of cleanly cutting it. Thus, over time, their yard deteriorates.

I cut my own grass. Sharpen my own blade. And don't ever use a gas-powered blower on the grass, as I don't even own one. I also dump compost I make on it at least once/yr. I also fertilize it. So it looks great compared to two close neighbors who use weekly services.

But I only have my yard to care for. Not 50 or 100. I also don't cut it every week during the Summer as I leave it long to minimize watering and better deal with the heat.

I grew up in Houston. Sure wish I had that soil where I live! Great for growing grass.
 
Originally Posted By: Smoky14
A society that scorns excellence in plumbing, because plumbing is a humble endeavor and praises shoddiness in philosophy because philosophy is an exalted endeavor will have neither theories or pipes that hold water.

Paraphrased but you get the idea.

Smoky



The issues with plumbers is some services cost an exorbitant rate. I had a plumber quote me $600.00 to replace a $100.00 pressure regulator that was threaded between two pieces of PVC in a service closet. He arrived at the price right out of his company's rate book. All he had to do was unscrew the fittings and screw the new one back one. Maybe a 10 minute job. In the valley here they all charge the same rates. However, if they need to dig up and replace a sewer line I would be willing to pay them whatever the price would be.
 
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The biggest problem I see is the cost of living goes up way more than the pay. I know a lot of people only made about 30% more than they were 10 years ago in their field, yet cost of housing especially has doubled.
 
Mowing grass is not a talent. There are an abundance of scapers around here as a matter of fact, the kid next door that went to college in Hawaii decided to drop out on his job and become one. He still lives with his parents, working only 3 months a year.
 
Originally Posted By: Smoky14
A society that scorns excellence in plumbing, because plumbing is a humble endeavor and praises shoddiness in philosophy because philosophy is an exalted endeavor will have neither theories or pipes that hold water.

Paraphrased but you get the idea.

Smoky


Plumbers are screwed. Have you seen the pex and push to connect fittings? I could redo my house in a half day.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Mowing grass is not a talent. There are an abundance of scapers around here as a matter of fact, the kid next door that went to college in Hawaii decided to drop out on his job and become one. He still lives with his parents, working only 3 months a year.



Why is a momma's boy still living in parent's basement ?

Both my sons have been out of the house since 18 years old.
 
Originally Posted By: jsfalls
Being in the automotive field, I get people several times a week trying to get me to look at their car for free. I know people in other skilled trades that get the same thing. People these days feel that everyone owes them something for nothing.


Suggest you not change careers into IT or law.
 
On the flip side, there are contractors who ask for insane amounts. One company, who's fairly reputable around here, wanted $2700 for laminate wood flooring for just one room. I did it myself for $700. I don't know how a few hours of labor for 2 people would cost $2000. It's not like it's neurosurgery or something. They probably pay the workers $25/hr as well
 
Plumbers and electricians are not interested in repair work here, they work in subdivisions and building sites doing new instalations, serious money to be made in easy clean work. One of my bil's does alarms, same for him, he'd rather instal in new buildings going up than crawl around some old rat or roach infested house. It's the opposite for my trade - I don't want to fit towbars and body trim updates to new cars, I'd rather be up to my elbows deep in something old and dirty.

And no, I'm not well paid for my qualifications and experience.
 
Perhaps it's not new, but we have new ways of doing it in a connected world.

In the 17 or so years I've been doing field support we've gone from working with local system admins to calling some team in Bangalore who may or may not know what they are doing.

Not saying you can't find inept people domestically. I can tell you that I'm encountering more and more people who don't know how to admin the equipment for which they are responsible.

Fortunately, my government/military customers are still running their own IT shops. Many others have outsourced portions of it and have hired folks who don't know what they are doing.

So now, in a connected world, we have access to a couple of billion people who are not as qualified, but will work for pennies on the dollar, making some manager look good.

But if they cause an outage, it won't be that manager, but someone down the ladder who had no say in the decision who gets the axe.

--------------

Edited to add. Before that, I was in the Army and then did tech training. Talk about a career that has all but dried up. Few companies want to pay for tech training these days.

I know our education center in Colorado once ran a dozen CUSTOMER classes each week as well as a few internal courses.

Today, one is expected to learn it on-line or already know it.

That's how I transitioned into Field Support. I could see the writing on the wall in 2000. When the dotcom became the dotbomb, the students went away.

Some of my peers stayed with it. But they have to teach for more than one vendor and as a contractor. So they are teaching for Oracle and Cisco, and RedHat or whoever is running a course.

I don't see many companies that value knowledgable employees demonstrate their worth by sending their workers to get trained.

I might have gone to 2-4 courses a year in years past. Now I'm lucky to get one a year.


Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Am I the only one who notices that even though you have a talent and can do things that many people can't, they still want it for a cheap low ball price.


What makes you think you have talent?

Originally Posted By: FirstNissan
Unfortunately that is the new way


There's nothing new about it. People have always been trying to get more for less. Be it products or service, human nature hasn't changed much.
 
I work in one of the most competitive fields out there. Anyone can join my field and start tomorrow with no licensing or anything.

Yet we routinely command the highest prices. We also say no a lot. There are still folks who appreciate quality work and understand there is a premium associated with expertise.

Most of them find out after a few "bargains"...
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Perhaps it's not new, but we have new ways of doing it in a connected world.


Your point is moot-we've always had "new" ways of doing things, and the workforce is required to adapt. We also no longer need operators to connect our phone calls, milkmen to deliver milk to our front door, and ice cutters to cut ice on frozen lakes in the winter. We had "new" ways of doing things during the industrial revolution, we had "new" ways of doing things when transistors replaced tubes, and we had "new" ways of doing things when computer punch cards were the norm. In a few years we'll have technologies around that make current technology look like 5-1/4 floppies do today.

Training? Much of it is available online, especially when it comes to IT/tech administration. Things are reliable enough that it no longer takes a great deal of training to plug in devices or subnet a network, and even an average person can build a computer from off-the-shelf components. At the same time, the talent has moved to programming-good programmers are always in demand, and a large portion of that has shifted from computer programming to programming for mobile devices. There will also come a time when that shifts to something new, and the workforce will have to shift and adapt. There was a time when people needed classes to learn Word and Excel, now the information is so easily available that the classes would be a waste.

If there is someone willing to do your job for less, then you need to increase your skills or find a way to make yourself more valuable rather than lament about it.
 
Pop_Rivit,

Problem is that there are a few good jobs available and too many qualified people applying for those jobs with skills / training / education, etc...
 
You have to somehow rise above the competition. Most of my work, as a plumbing contractor, is in commercial tenant improvement, and residential custom/spec houses. I'm doing less and less residential work as time goes by. There are plenty of plumbers out there, but the contractors I work with know that I can finish the job.

Anybody who can solder copper thinks he's a plumber, just like anyone with a hammer and a saw thinks he's a framer.

A good plumber, framer, electrician, or welder can make a living. However, on a jobsite where there are tradesmen making $25+ per hour, there will also be plenty of guys making $15/hr or less.

I'm not saying I'm the best in my trade. What I am is competent, and efficient. In my mid-to-late 50's, I continue to learn, and improve my skills.
 
Perhaps, yet people learn in different ways.

You have kinesthetic learners. They learn by doing. You have visual learners, they learn by watching. You also have verbal learners. They learn by listening or reading about how to do it.

Education and training solutions cannot be a one-size-fits all product.

There will always be those who need an instructor present to identify their preferred method and guide them through it.

The web really doesn't offer that.

I have a neighbor taking on-line Java classes. I'm frequently helping her with her assignments as she needs more than what the on-line training offers.

Others might be able to get it. But she's a visual learner. So I'll show her parts of the solution, done for another problem so she can take what I show her and apply it to her assignment.

For instance, if she has an assignment that wants her to produce a method to calculate the area of a rectangle, I might write up an example that adds a series of numbers from the provided start number and end number and show her how my method is called to provide the answer.

She can then take that and apply it to her problem. The form is the same, but the contents of her code is somewhat different.

That way, I can see if she understands.

She's really a visual learner, so seeing how something similar is done helps her grasp a solution to her problem.

She doesn't get that in the on-line training.

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Perhaps it's not new, but we have new ways of doing it in a connected world.


Your point is moot-we've always had "new" ways of doing things, and the workforce is required to adapt. We also no longer need operators to connect our phone calls, milkmen to deliver milk to our front door, and ice cutters to cut ice on frozen lakes in the winter. We had "new" ways of doing things during the industrial revolution, we had "new" ways of doing things when transistors replaced tubes, and we had "new" ways of doing things when computer punch cards were the norm. In a few years we'll have technologies around that make current technology look like 5-1/4 floppies do today.

Training? Much of it is available online, especially when it comes to IT/tech administration. Things are reliable enough that it no longer takes a great deal of training to plug in devices or subnet a network, and even an average person can build a computer from off-the-shelf components. At the same time, the talent has moved to programming-good programmers are always in demand, and a large portion of that has shifted from computer programming to programming for mobile devices. There will also come a time when that shifts to something new, and the workforce will have to shift and adapt. There was a time when people needed classes to learn Word and Excel, now the information is so easily available that the classes would be a waste.

If there is someone willing to do your job for less, then you need to increase your skills or find a way to make yourself more valuable rather than lament about it.
 
Originally Posted By: xfactor9
On the flip side, there are contractors who ask for insane amounts. One company, who's fairly reputable around here, wanted $2700 for laminate wood flooring for just one room. I did it myself for $700. I don't know how a few hours of labor for 2 people would cost $2000. It's not like it's neurosurgery or something. They probably pay the workers $25/hr as well
Long story short, they didn't want the job, but if you were silly/desperate enough to pay them, they were going to make it worth their while.
 
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