Don't underestimate the 410.

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Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
By the way, this below is taken from "Catridges of the World, 11th Edition."

This is considered one of the most authoritative sources on cartridge history around.

Quote:
.45 Colt Historical Notes: This was introduced, in 1873, by Colt’s as one of the cartridges for its famous Peacemaker single-action revolver. Both the cartridge and the revolver were adopted by the U.S. Army, in 1875. This served as the official handgun cartridge of the Army, until 1892 (some 17 years), when it was replaced by the .38 Long Colt. The .45 Colt is one of the cartridges that helped civilize and settle the American West. It was originally a blackpowder number, loaded with 40 grains of FFg powder and a 255-grain lead bullet. Testing has demonstrated that muzzle velocity of the original loading almost certainly exceeded 900 fps in the original revolvers. Various importers offer excellent Italian-made replicas of the original Colt’s model, and Ruger and several other makes of more modern single-action revolvers are currently chambered in .45 Colt.


General Comments: This is one of the most famous American handgun cartridges and still a favorite with big-bore advocates. It is extremely accurate and has more knockdown and stopping power than nearly any common handgun cartridge, except the .44 Magnum. It is a popular field cartridge and can be safely handloaded to velocities in excess of 1000 fps with 250-grain than about 800 fps muzzle velocity. Although the .45 Colt has a larger case than the .45 Automatic or the .45 Auto-Rim, it is not quite as efficient with factory-duplicating loads using smokeless powder. Using special revolvers, some very heavy loads have been established for the .45 Colt case. These put it in almost the same class as the .44 Magnum. Such loads should not be attempted except by an experienced person who fully understands what he is doing and who will ensure that those loads are only used in a revolver that will withstand the pressures generated. This is another cartridge that has developed a rebirth of interest. Federal, Remington, Winchester, Black Hills Ammunition, CorBon, and others all offer .45 Colt loads.


Barnes, Frank C. (2012-09-07). Cartridges of the World: A Complete Illustrated Reference for More Than 1,500 Cartridges (Kindle Locations 11115-11120). Gun Digest Books. Kindle Edition.




You better write letters to Marlin and Colt for their sins of the past in renaming Winchester and S&W cartridges. You should probably also go and correct every ammo maker that stamps "9mm Luger" on their cases instead of 9mm Parabellum.

Again...you are making a ridiculous point. Even Federal Ammunition online labels their 45 colt with the product codes "AE45LC" for American Eagle 45 Colt. Oh and if that does not make you happy...maybe the image below will.

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or this

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Next, we will hear how you can't call a submarine sandwich a hoagie, because that's wrong and accuracy matters...

And hero and grinder are totally inaccurate, both historically and from a technical perspective.

Journalists and non-sandwich people get this nomenclature wrong all the time and I have been eating sandwiches for 52 years now and know which sandwiches are which...it's an important point and I won't accept anything less than calling the sandwhich by precise name that I use.

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Resistance is futile...
 
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Yes, and I'm sure you all buy bullets to load in your high capacity clips for your assault rifles.

Accuracy matters-this just happens to be a pet peeve of mine. BTW, I've been perusing Sixguns by Elmer Keith this evening, and he also pretty consistently refers to the cartridge by its proper name(45 Colt).
 
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I have lots of clips, over 50, I think, for my US Rifle, cal .30, M1

Which I call a "Garand"

And when I call it a Garand, only the true pedant would correct me...everyone knows the vernacular.

Magazines are for my AR-pattern rifles, Glocks, and other pistols.

My assault rifle is an 1884 Springfield, with the Buffington sight. 45-70 govt.

Since it has a bayonet lug...it must be an assault rifle, no? 10 lbs of mahogany and steel...it was built for combat...it's a...weapon of war...and such large caliber weapons shouldn't be in civilian hands...particularly ones with 1200 yard sights...who needs that kind of firepower!

In the vernacular, I call that a "Trapdoor"... like calling a sandwich a hoagie, most folks know what I mean.

If you can find a single post where I have EVER misused the word "clip" then your simple, blanket assumption would apply to me. Please feel free to search every post I've ever made. If you can find even one instance, I'll send you $50.

Otherwise, since you're new to BITOG, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You've made a lot of specious assumptions here about my understanding/expertise as well as the understanding/experience that others have. You're not the only one here that has experience with firearms...or "guns" as they're sometimes called...
 
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Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
Yes, and I'm sure you all buy bullets to load in your high capacity clips for your assault rifles.

Accuracy matters-this just happens to be a pet peeve of mine. BTW, I've been perusing Sixguns by Elmer Keith this evening, and he also pretty consistently refers to the cartridge by its proper name(45 Colt).


No it is not the same thing. Because I don't see anyone who makes magazines calling them clips. I see some ammo makers and even GUN MAKERS calling 45 colt "45LC or 45 Long Colt". This is no different than calling .30M2 "30-06", or 30 W.C.F. "30-30" or 38 S&W "38 Colt New Police".

Oh and look a 45LC headstamp on brass

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Originally Posted By: Robenstein
This is no different than calling .30M2 "30-06", or 30 W.C.F. "30-30" or 38 S&W "38 Colt New Police".


There is a difference there.

M2 Ball is a specific loading of 30-06, and 38 Colt New Police is a specific loading of 38 S&W. The latter properly has a 146gr RNFP lead bullet, while the specs of M2 Ball are well known.

30-30 is an appropriate designation, and one actually used by Winchester at the time of its introduction with an eye toward using the "familiar" black powder nomenclature for their new smokeless powder cartridges. I've seen turn of the century Winchesters marked in both 30 WCF and 30-30 WCF.

By the way, I have seen Colt advertising refer briefly to this mythical "45 Long Colt" but I have yet to see a Colt actually marked as such. I've owned guns chambered in 45 Colt from Colt, S&W, and Ruger, and all have been marked "45 Colt."
 
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Originally Posted By: Astro14

Otherwise, since you're new to BITOG, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You've made a lot of specious assumptions here about my understanding/expertise as well as the understanding/experience that others have. You're not the only one here that has experience with firearms...or "guns" as they're sometimes called...


I never make assumptions about others' experience or knowledge, I'm just calling out a misnomer that has always bothered me and backing it up with what I would consider respected print references(Cartridges of the World in particular is a benchmark reference for this sort of stuff).

Admittedly, though, as this is one of my favorite calibers both to collect, shoot, and load I am harping on what is a pet peeve.

In any case, I think I've made it known where my opinion stands so I will bow out of this discussion.
 
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Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
This is no different than calling .30M2 "30-06", or 30 W.C.F. "30-30" or 38 S&W "38 Colt New Police".


There is a difference there.

M2 Ball is a specific loading of 30-06, and 38 Colt New Police is a specific loading of 38 S&W. The latter properly has a 146gr RNFP lead bullet, while the specs of M2 Ball are well known.

30-30 is an appropriate designation, and one actually used by Winchester at the time of its introduction with an eye toward using the "familiar" black powder nomenclature for their new smokeless powder cartridges. I've seen turn of the century Winchesters marked in both 30 WCF and 30-30 WCF.


If every specific loading of a cartridge demanded a new name, as you appear to be asserting via this defense, even your precious book you quoted would be in error according to that logic.

You are simply on the wrong side of the argument my good sir. This is not like someone calling the 5.56x45mm a "223 Remington" or as you put it calling a magazine a "clip".

If the people who make the ammo and guns use the 45 colt and 45lc or long colt interchangeably, the consensus among the very gun literate community is against you. I just looked over on Marlin's website and they use both what you assert is the proper and improper name for the round on the same page.
 
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Originally Posted By: Robenstein
bunnspecial said:
If every specific loading of a cartridge demanded a new name, as you appear to be asserting via this defense, even your precious book you quoted would be in error according to that logic.




What you are actually doing is twisting around my wording.

I did not in fact make any such assertion that every specific loading demands a cartridge name, but rather that YOU provided two examples of your claim that in fact are examples of specific loadings for a particular caliber.

Yes, all M2 ball is 30-06 Springfield, but not all 30-06 Springfield is M2 Ball. There are a LOT of different 30-06 loadings out there, and no one in their right mind would suggest that each should have a special name although-again-certain loadings DO have their own name.

38 S&W(and 32 S&W Long) are similar, but again on much smaller scale. A cartridge can only correctly be called "38 Colt New Police" or "32 Colt New Police" if it is loaded with the round nose flat point bullets associated with these names. Look at actual period ammunition and you will see this to be the case. The only contemporary example I know of is the S&B 32 S&W Long loading with the RNFP bullet that says "32 N.P." in small type on the box below where it says 32 S&W Long.

And, yes, I've cited one particular respected book to support my argument, but other well-known gun writers are in agreement/
 
Since this thread was partly about the Taurus Judge, and bunnspecial was objecting to the use of "45 Long Colt" as a description of one of the cartridges that could be loaded in the Judge, I decided to look at the Taurus site...

Huh, who would've guessed...

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=199&category=revolver

But I'm certain that the manufacturer doesn't know what they're talking about when they call the cartridge .45 Long Colt...
 
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Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
And, yes, I've cited one particular respected book to support my argument, but other well-known gun writers are in agreement/


Some...not all...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/08/chris-dumm/gun-review-sw-governor-take-two/

This author alternates between calling it 45 Colt and 45 Long Colt. I'd keep looking, but you're taking up enough of my time...this was one reviewer, and in my 30 years of subscribing to G&A (Wait, can I call it G&A without offending your refined sensibilities? Or should I call it "Guns & Ammo" magazine...is the use of the ampersand OK? Should I use the conjunction? I was just using what I've seen on the cover...), as well as off and on subscriptions to "Shooting Times" and my life membership in the NRA (with its concomitant American Rifleman subscription) I know that I've seen the cartridge in question described both ways.

But that was my point - you're claiming that everyone who calls it Long Colt is wrong...and it's pretty clear that not everyone agrees with you. Cite all the gunwriters you want who use your version, there are ones who don't. Claim what you like about who is well respected and who isn't...it just doesn't matter to me anymore...you've become ridiculous in your campaign to adopt the one description of this cartridge.

Just like other forms of vernacular, the terminology varies...and while I know that you simply can't accept that for your pet cartridge...precisely because it is your pet cartridge, I'm really not convinced, as you are, that everyone else is wrong...

Keep posting all you like. We simply disagree.
 
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http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/45_short_colt.htm

Who cares. The cartridge is almost 150 years old. Clearly some people at some point started referring to it as the "long." Even if we don't understand it now that doesn't mean there wasn't good reason 100+ years ago. A lot of stuff has come and gone since then. In 2016 if you say .45 Colt or .45 Long Colt or .45 LC it's very clear what you're talking about.
 
As an aside, might calling it .45 Long Colt also help differentiate it from .45 ACP? I can see someone calling either cartridge .45 Colt, when they're clearly not interchangeable.
 
Apparently the .45 Colt short is being made at this time. The .45 Cowboy Special. I had never heard of it.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
As an aside, might calling it .45 Long Colt also help differentiate it from .45 ACP? I can see someone calling either cartridge .45 Colt, when they're clearly not interchangeable.


That's how I always viewed it...as a way to avoid ambiguity.

But I've been told that avoiding that ambiguity with the usage you suggest makes me a firearms noob that doesn't know the difference between a clip and a magazine...
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
As an aside, might calling it .45 Long Colt also help differentiate it from .45 ACP? I can see someone calling either cartridge .45 Colt, when they're clearly not interchangeable.


That's what I've always thought, but I never really over thought it that much.

I have a Public Defender ( polymer, snubby version of the Judge, a nice handgun, actually ), and I'm nearly positive it's marked 45LC/410GA. I think I've seen cartridge ( or is that loaded cartridge? ) boxes marked both ways.

And the only sub, hoagie, etc., worth talking about is the po' boy.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
That's how I always viewed it...as a way to avoid ambiguity.

It's been a while since I read the gun magazines, but I'm sure I had read such a passage years ago.

Originally Posted By: Astro14
But I've been told that avoiding that ambiguity with the usage you suggest makes me a firearms noob that doesn't know the difference between a clip and a magazine...

How about I get a revolver that takes .45 ACP with moon clips?
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