Georgia bans 71 oils from 29 brands

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: ToadU
IMO what we don't need are more govt regulations and control.
Our life is controlled by the government more than most people realize.


Yes.

We should start by disbanding the US Military.
All those soldiers and officers who have 100% signed away their very lives, and that of their spouses, to the US Government.

We as citizens shouldn't need to have the US Government protect us, anyway, as that is bad.
We should all have weapons stockpiles, tanks, anti-aircraft weaponry, and fighter jets in our backyards so that we can protect our own selves from invading nations. We don't need the government to interfere with our ability to protect ourselves, because we know how to do it better than them.

You are so right.

We should also have our state and local governments disband their police forces, because we should be able to tell the difference between a friendly neighbor, and that guy down the block who keeps looking at your teenage daughter in that way you don't like. You definitely shouldn't be able to look him up on the sex offender's registry, as that's a violation of his privacy, and he should be able to stalk your family members without interference.

How about we remove any requirements for doctors in the US to be licensed and certified in the surgeries that they perform. If I can get my eye doctor to perform my wife's open heart surgery for a fraction of the price, I should totally have that choice, shouldn't I?

And finally, the local government should dispose of their Weights and Measurements teams.
I mean, you as a gasoline retailer should fully be trusted to sell as much gasoline as you want, and call it a gallon. Maybe you will give the customer a bit more than a gallon, some of the time.

My counter arguments are completely ridiculous.
Just like your arguments.

BC.

 

[Inspecktor]

Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Originally Posted By: ToadU
IMO what we don't need are more govt regulations and control.
Our life is controlled by the government more than most people realize.


Yes.

We should start by disbanding the US Military.
All those soldiers and officers who have 100% signed away their very lives, and that of their spouses, to the US Government.

We as citizens shouldn't need to have the US Government protect us, anyway, as that is bad.
We should all have weapons stockpiles, tanks, anti-aircraft weaponry, and fighter jets in our backyards so that we can protect our own selves from invading nations. We don't need the government to interfere with our ability to protect ourselves, because we know how to do it better than them.

You are so right.

We should also have our state and local governments disband their police forces, because we should be able to tell the difference between a friendly neighbor, and that guy down the block who keeps looking at your teenage daughter in that way you don't like. You definitely shouldn't be able to look him up on the sex offender's registry, as that's a violation of his privacy, and he should be able to stalk your family members without interference.

How about we remove any requirements for doctors in the US to be licensed and certified in the surgeries that they perform. If I can get my eye doctor to perform my wife's open heart surgery for a fraction of the price, I should totally have that choice, shouldn't I?

And finally, the local government should dispose of their Weights and Measurements teams.
I mean, you as a gasoline retailer should fully be trusted to sell as much gasoline as you want, and call it a gallon. Maybe you will give the customer a bit more than a gallon, some of the time.

My counter arguments are completely ridiculous.
Just like your arguments.

BC.
Exactly.

 

[Pontual]

There is a video in pqia site were its lawyer says that some of these oils have used engine oil in the composition, at least in part. So the quality control is below the drain...
And it pours very dark indeed.
http://newjersey.news12.com/news/kiyc-bad-motor-oils-still-on-shelves-1.7964122

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: ToadU
Let the market correct this not the government. Class action suits. Good. Trademark suits. Good. We already have laws against fraud so the purposeful mis-labeling should be easy to handle. IMO what we don't need are more govt regulations and control. Air bags shouldn't be required. If people want them let them buy them. Our life is controlled by the government more than most people realize.


Yeah!!!
And why shouldn't candy makers be able to slip a little strychnine into chocolate bars as long as they put a tiny message on the back saying "Contains C21H22N2O2"? Let those stupid 6 year old kids learn some chemistry before they buy sweets at the 7-11!!!

 

[circuitsmith]

Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
We should start by disbanding the US Military.


Years ago I had a boss who thought we should remove all US military personnel from foreign countries we are not at war with.
After all, why should we spend money or care about who's running Germany, Japan etc.?
He also thought motorcycles are safer than cars.

 

[SirTanon]

Originally Posted By: ToadU
Buyer beware. Be an informed consumer. I have no problem with thr Chinese dog food issues. I am a knowledgeable consumer and feed both of my Schutzen trained imported German Shepherds the very best American made food. That doesn't mean I want th government telling me I can't buy somthing if I want it. I already resent the CAFE standards. There will come a day when car oil drains are sealed with some sort of tamper device and you will be forced to take your car into a government approved facility just like with smog checks and get a government approved oil change at government approved intervals. It won't stop at soda and oil.


So I guess that question is - WHY would you ever WANT one of these oils?

Also, if you didn't KNOW how bad these oils were in your car, wouldn't you WANT to know that they are dangerous?

 

[Nate1979]

This is not the govt telling you what you can and can't buy. This is the govt stopping certain companies from selling fraudulent product - i.e. product that does not meet the specs they claim.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
I wouldn't brush my teeth with these brand oils...


Why would you brush you teeth with oil? What brand oils do you prefer to brush your teeth with?

 

[Gasbuggy]

The funding provided to PQIA from the Big Oil companies is really paying dividends via increased shelf space and market share that this will result in.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
The funding provided to PQIA from the Big Oil companies is really paying dividends via increased shelf space and market share that this will result in.


LOL, you don't get it.

If the loaves of bread in your supermarket were interspersed with bags of manure, you could at least use your reasoning skills to determine that it doesn't look like bread.

If your shelves of oil bottles are interspersed with bottles of useless "oil", but the labels met the requirements of your manufacturer's manual, then what exactly do you have to go by ?

 

[Gasbuggy]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
The funding provided to PQIA from the Big Oil companies is really paying dividends via increased shelf space and market share that this will result in.


LOL, you don't get it.

If the loaves of bread in your supermarket were interspersed with bags of manure, you could at least use your reasoning skills to determine that it doesn't look like bread.

If your shelves of oil bottles are interspersed with bottles of useless "oil", but the labels met the requirements of your manufacturer's manual, then what exactly do you have to go by ?


I get the big picture. You can't deny the benefit that funding PQIA brings to these companies. Do you honestly believe that Chevron, Phillips, Warren Lubricants give a flying X about the quality of the oil Joe Blow grabs off the shelf in these stores? Of course they don't. Oil is not an altruistic business. When these oils are banned some of the supporting companies products replace them and it ='s profit. It is smart business and that is exactly why I get it.

There is a obvious benefit to the consumer, but they aren't the only ones gaining from this. My apologies for pointing out the less obvious benefit.

 

[Garak]

Sometimes, oil companies' and consumers' interests do align. Specifications weren't created merely to protect oil company interests. They certainly do that, however. Oil companies don't need fly by night outfits selling used oil or simple unadditized base stocks as finished motor oil. It doesn't do them any good, or OEMs, or motorists. And, if the fly by not operations were using API trademarks, and no one policed them, it would be that much worse.

I doubt that any of the big oil companies are suffering because of these hideous oils on the market. They're barely a whiff in their bottom line. And don't ascribe too much to the retail space they take up. If a parts store in Georgia were filled with this garbage, yes, they would have to go to Shell or Mobil or Valvoline or Castrol or something else, since they're a parts store and selling oil makes sense. The corner store may simply say to heck with it altogether. If they're not moving enough oil, and they almost certainly aren't, they may forego the product altogether.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
The funding provided to PQIA from the Big Oil companies is really paying dividends via increased shelf space and market share that this will result in.

Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
You can't deny the benefit that funding PQIA brings to these companies. Do you honestly believe that Chevron, Phillips, Warren Lubricants give a flying X about the quality of the oil Joe Blow grabs off the shelf in these stores? Of course they don't. Oil is not an altruistic business. When these oils are banned some of the supporting companies products replace them and it ='s profit. It is smart business and that is exactly why I get it.

There is a obvious benefit to the consumer, but they aren't the only ones gaining from this. My apologies for pointing out the less obvious benefit.


I chaired the PQIA Advisory Board for two years and had many long discussions with the supporters. I assure you they are acting on principle, not profit, in their efforts to clean up the market, establish a level playing field, and serve the needs of consumers. These same companies support many other industry organizations as well with time, resources, and money for the same reasons.

PQIA's supporters range from small independent companies to major oil. One thing they have in common is a frustration and disgust with companies filling bottles with cheap waste oils and abusing consumers. Such companies make a mockery of the industry standards designed to assure quality products, and harm consumers with damaging oils. The volume of junk oils such as Everclear, Bullseye, and City Star removed from the market is utterly insignificant and unmeasurable to the likes of ExxonMobil, Chevron, and other large companies.

The junk oil companies hurt everyone and were flying under the radar. The other policing organizations are trade organizations who only monitored their members and kept violations and remedies confidential. They did a good job, but were incomplete and had few penalties for misconduct. PQIA is independent and samples all oils randomly, including the junk brands, and publishes the results - with brand names - for all to see. The supporters support PQIA because there was a need in the industry for this level of policing and PQIA filled it.

PQIA's supporters have no knowledge or influence on the brands purchased or the test results published. They see the tested brands when posted on the PQIA website like everyone else. All of the supporters are subject to the same or more scrutiny and several have been found in violation of standards by PQIA. Great efforts are made to assure a fair and unbiased operation with a mission to serve consumers, not oil companies. If you knew PQIA, their supporters and their methods as I do I am sure you would see them with a different point of view.

Tom NJ

Note: I am an unpaid advisor to PQIA, and my posts on this site reflect my personal opinions, which are not necessarily those of PQIA.

 

[mark pruett]

Originally Posted By: ToadU
Soon they might even regulate how often your allows to change you oil to help the "environment".


You, your family and everyone you know live in it, regardless of whether you put it in quotes to make it seem fraudulent or not.

Here's the thing- someone's right to do something stops when it starts to infringe on others' rights NOT to have that (or its consequences) done to them. So it's all well and good to not want the government to regulate how often you can change YOUR oil, but if it causes pollution that affects other people, that's the point at which your free market choices start to change, because it's all great (albeit kind of retarded) that someone wants to change their oil every 3000 miles, but that privilege only extends to the point to which that doesn't infringe on others' rights. And ultimately, I'd think that people not drinking contaminated groundwater trumps nebulous free market rights about how often you can change your oil.

Most market regulations fall along these lines- something's prohibited because it causes undesired effects somewhere down the line, that don't affect the primary consumer. Look up "tragedy of the commons" for some examples. Basically you can do the smart and effective thing for yourself, and yet it screws everyone, because your own self-interest doesn't align with what's best for everyone, and neither does anyone else's. In that case, regulation is absolutely necessary, or common resources (like say... water, air, wild fish, etc...) get depleted or destroyed through everyone trying to do what's best for them.

What the State of Georgia is doing is basic consumer protection. Most people don't know squat about motor oil, and if they do, it's something along the lines of knowing that Castrol is "liquid engineering" or that Quaker State had commercials with taxis, and that Havoline has something to do with Texaco. So when they go to the gas station and notice that they're a quart low, they look on the shelf to see what's there, and see say... Chevron Supreme for $5 a quart, and some PQIA-failure oil for $2, that says "5-30 Economy Motor Oil", and has specs (that they don't understand), and says "This is NOT a 5w-30 oil" on the back. Or worse, it's a SF rated oil (good from 1979-1988). So in that case, it has all the nifty graphics, but unless the customer understands that the current rating is SN, and that almost ALL reputable oil is all SN these days, they're unlikely to realize that this is substandard oil.

THAT's why GA prohibited these oils; they're not necessarily mislabeled, but are intentionally misleading. What possible point is there in selling SF/CC labeled oil in 2016, or oils named "5-30 Economy" with "Not a 5w-30 oil" on the back, if not to mislead? It's sketchy as [censored], and kudos to the Georgia state government for cracking down on that.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
The funding provided to PQIA from the Big Oil companies is really paying dividends via increased shelf space and market share that this will result in.

Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
You can't deny the benefit that funding PQIA brings to these companies. Do you honestly believe that Chevron, Phillips, Warren Lubricants give a flying X about the quality of the oil Joe Blow grabs off the shelf in these stores? Of course they don't. Oil is not an altruistic business. When these oils are banned some of the supporting companies products replace them and it ='s profit. It is smart business and that is exactly why I get it.

There is a obvious benefit to the consumer, but they aren't the only ones gaining from this. My apologies for pointing out the less obvious benefit.


I chaired the PQIA Advisory Board for two years and had many long discussions with the supporters. I assure you they are acting on principle, not profit, in their efforts to clean up the market, establish a level playing field, and serve the needs of consumers. These same companies support many other industry organizations as well with time, resources, and money for the same reasons.

PQIA's supporters range from small independent companies to major oil. One thing they have in common is a frustration and disgust with companies filling bottles with cheap waste oils and abusing consumers. Such companies make a mockery of the industry standards designed to assure quality products, and harm consumers with damaging oils. The volume of junk oils such as Everclear, Bullseye, and City Star removed from the market is utterly insignificant and unmeasurable to the likes of ExxonMobil, Chevron, and other large companies.

The junk oil companies hurt everyone and were flying under the radar. The other policing organizations are trade organizations who only monitored their members and kept violations and remedies confidential. They did a good job, but were incomplete and had few penalties for misconduct. PQIA is independent and samples all oils randomly, including the junk brands, and publishes the results - with brand names - for all to see. The supporters support PQIA because there was a need in the industry for this level of policing and PQIA filled it.

PQIA's supporters have no knowledge or influence on the brands purchased or the test results published. They see the tested brands when posted on the PQIA website like everyone else. All of the supporters are subject to the same or more scrutiny and several have been found in violation of standards by PQIA. Great efforts are made to assure a fair and unbiased operation with a mission to serve consumers, not oil companies. If you knew PQIA, their supporters and their methods as I do I am sure you would see them with a different point of view.

Tom NJ

Note: I am an unpaid advisor to PQIA, and my posts on this site reflect my personal opinions, which are not necessarily those of PQIA.



I appreciate the reply. Just to clarify I wasn't referring to your small supporters and I was n't denying other motives or benefits. It is undeniable that larger oil manufacturers, some of which support PIQA, will increase market share because of PIQA's efforts. It might not be a significant gain at this time, but it is a gain. It will add up as states one by one make similar decisions.

PIQA is clearing shelves in large retailing spaces where these companies compete for space. You reference that they never expressed this interest in meetings with you, I would not expect them to do so. That would be tasteless. But right now there are some Jr. VPs working on getting their products in that fresh shelf space so their bonus check can get a little boost next Q.

I'm not complaining, this is capitalism at work. I do believe some supporters weigh the upside of knocking out competing companies (leveling the playing field?) when writing a check to PIQA. We will have to agree to disagree I suppose.

 

[Garak]

One also has to note that these aren't fair competitors. They're not really selling motor oil by the rules, and they're not selling competing products. I can't strap a Briggs & Stratton engine to a buckboard and call it a luxury car and sell it in North America, either, without getting my butt handed to me by every regulator imaginable.

 

[Bamaro]

I'm guessing none of these are actual refiners so it begs the question of who is blending these oils? Are many of these actually the same oil with just a different label slapped on?