Change PP after 1000 mi 6 month Short Winter Trips

[WillsYoda]

I've been wavering about how often to change my PP HM synthetic 5w30 oil in my 98 toyota avalon I drive lots of short trips in the cold winters here. I drive one or two miles for many winter trips, and occasionally drive 5-10 miles. I drive about 1000 miles over the 6 months of "winter" that goes from October to April (that is how long it snows). I am unlikely to take a long drive just to warm up the car. After the winter ends I drive more and take longer trips (including a couple 1000 mile trips). Since I live in a cold climate, I probably get moisture in the oil during the winter. The long summer trips would "burn" that moisture off, but that might be "too little too late."

I've been driving like this for the last 10 years and my car runs fine on scheduled maintenance (the car has 205k miles now). It has never failed me on the 1000 miles trips after winter ends, but I usually changed the oil before the 1000 mi trips on a 6 months OCI with Maxlife 5w30 blend.

One thing I have noticed is that the PP synthetic does not produce "Winter Mayonnaise" in the cap as the Maxlife blend did. And the cold startups seem to be much less noisy with the synthetic PP. So there seem to be advantages to a synthetic in the extreme cold (-20 F is not uncommon).

I changed to PP HM oil in October. Should I change my PP 5w30 HM oil in April after about 6 months and 1000 miles, or should I leave it in for 12 months and 5000 miles???

Another thought is to change the oil one more time at 6 months, and then change the oil just after winter ends on a 12 month April-to-April OCI in the future.

 

[Nick1994]

Being the Toyota 3.0L 1MZFE sludge monster, I would change it in the spring and fall for peace of mind. Only $35 for new oil and a filter, not much to lose.

 

[WillsYoda]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Being the Toyota 3.0L 1MZFE sludge monster, I would change it in the spring and fall for peace of mind. Only $35 for new oil and a filter, not much to lose.


It is a 98 1mzfe which is famous for sludge, but I changed the valve cover gaskets last summer and it was clean as a whistle under there. It looked basically like this (note this is not my engine, but it looks like this)... http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/hyperv...f88931.jpg.html

So I'm not worried about the sludge, but I am a little worried about the moisture issue. Maybe the extra $35 is worth the extra insurance. But I hate to waste good oil.

Do you think an April-to-April 12 month/5000 mile OCI on PP is good going forward? That way, the moisture issue is taken care of just after our winter ends, but I don't dump good synthetic oil after 1000 miles (since I drive 1k miles over the "winter" 6 month interval and 3-4k over the "summer" 6 month interval).

 

[Doog]

Just use PYB and change it every 6 months. No need for syn. I have a 2 mile commute and run PP 5w30 5000 miles in my 2012 Avalon. My UOAs come out fine. But if you are only going 1000 miles PYB should be just fine. If you are in doubt spend the $25 and send a 1000 mile sample to Blackstone Labs and see what you get.

 

[WillsYoda]

Originally Posted By: Doog
Just use PYB and change it every 6 months. No need for syn. I have a 2 mile commute and run PP 5w30 5000 miles in my 2012 Avalon. My UOAs come out fine. But if you are only going 1000 miles PYB should be just fine. If you are in doubt spend the $25 and send a 1000 mile sample to Blackstone Labs and see what you get.


Thanks. It is good to hear about the PP with the 2012 Avalon (I might get one of those someday).

There are two reason I like the PP synthetic in the winter over conventional. First, I don't get the "winter mayonnaise" in the oil cap with the synthetic. Second, the below zero cold starts are much smoother with the synthetic. So I think I will run synthetic during winter regardless (on a good sale it isn't much more), but I am wondering if I should just run the synthetic 12 months/5000 miles from April-to-April or should I change it out every 6 months. It sounds like people might be voting for 6 months.

 

[Kuato]

Done a UOA yet?

 

[WillsYoda]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Done a UOA yet?


No, but maybe I should. Would TBN or TAN be a good indicator for the problems from winter moisture and short trips?

 

[crazyoildude]

I get the mayonnaise when i use synthetic in my 2011 3,5 Santa fe..Usually i use the QSUD but i still see under the cap starts looking like mayonnaise as you put it.

 

[bigt61]

Leave it in for the year, cars survive winter all the time w/o oil changes.... with a lot lower quality oil than you're using.

 

[meborder]

With your yearly mileage, I would change it in the spring and run it for 12 months.

But, I'm not familiar with the tendencies of that particular engine, so take that for what its worth. But with that being said, if you get another 100k out of your car and find out it has built up some sludge, is anyone really going to care?

 

[Mr_Joe]

'1-2 miles' is about nothing. Even in Winter can't be hard to mix in a 20 mile trip once in a while. I'd say you are doing pretty well, with 200k+ miles on the car now.

With quality oil I would't feel the need to change it at 1000 miles.

 

[gregk24]

Yes, change every 6 months. The oil may or may not be spent, but its most certainly full of fuel and maybe some water too.

 

[MoreCowbellAz]

Speaking of the possibility of fuel or water in the oil, would it be the case as asked in the OP that his occasional long trip would burn off fuel/oil that been accumulating for awhile, or is it the case where once it's in there for awhile it's not so easy to burn off anymore? I would think the former but at the same time it would seem after while there's a point of no return such as if you dumped a bunch of coolant in from a head gasket.

Also, do EP oils help with fuel/oil contamination?

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: meborder
With your yearly mileage, I would change it in the spring and run it for 12 months....


This makes a lot of sense. That PP will still be pretty stout entering winter. Between sales and rebates the PP costs no more than the PYB. You're talking $22 or less per OCI either way. Or use a Fram Ultra or equivalent and just the dump oil in October. Come April, change oil and filter. You got to 200K with what you're doing, so it works. A 10 mile weekly winter trip should be enough.

 

[JC1]

Originally Posted By: meborder
With your yearly mileage, I would change it in the spring and run it for 12 months.

But, I'm not familiar with the tendencies of that particular engine, so take that for what its worth. But with that being said, if you get another 100k out of your car and find out it has built up some sludge, is anyone really going to care?


+1 on this. If you've got no sludge in that motor, then I think you'd be OK with a one year OCI. As others have mentioned the UOA will give you peace of mind.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Done a UOA yet?


No, but maybe I should. Would TBN or TAN be a good indicator for the problems from winter moisture and short trips?


Partly, you'd have to take a look at all of the information as well as post it here so that those that really know their stuff can help with the analysis.

 

[WillsYoda]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm currently leaning to changing the current PP HM 5w30 fill after winter ends (6 months) but then change every 12 months/5000 miles on an April-to-April schedule. The idea is that the PP will be in good condition going into winter, and I can get the winter contaminants out right after winter ends.

I live in a small town and rarely have any reason to drive out of town, so short trips are the norm in winter. I do drive once a week about 10 miles round trip, but stop for an hour in the middle of the trip.

I've seen many discussions of the 1mzfe and motor oil, and a number of people have said that a 7500 mile OCI with a good synthetic oil and filter is fine if you have a sludge-free, clean engine. I will likely go only 5000 per OCI on a 12 month schedule.

I currently run PP HM 5w30 full synthetic with an oversized Fram Ultra XG3600. I plan to run the oversized Fram Ultra 20000 miles (4 OCIs or so). Other BITOGers here have had good luck running that filter 25000 miles.

 

[meborder]

I think your plan sounds perfect. In your shoes, I would do exactly the same.

 

[raytseng]

Sounds like a good plan but what are you trying to save with the 4 oci fci?

Are you using an oil extractor or other procedure where the filter change is going to add considerably to your maintenace in labor or time?

 

[Manofsteel]

Originally Posted By: JC1
Originally Posted By: meborder
With your yearly mileage, I would change it in the spring and run it for 12 months.

But, I'm not familiar with the tendencies of that particular engine, so take that for what its worth. But with that being said, if you get another 100k out of your car and find out it has built up some sludge, is anyone really going to care?


+1 on this. If you've got no sludge in that motor, then I think you'd be OK with a one year OCI. As others have mentioned the UOA will give you peace of mind.
I wouldn't waste my money on expensive synthetics for such short mileage. You can use a cheaper synthetic for 1000 miles and 1 year.