10w-30 vs 5w-40 question

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Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Amsoil says that even having up to 9% fuel dilution in post injection DPF isnt making more engine wear, in oils in general ... Diesel vid on youtube ...
Here is part 2 where Watson says Engines are vaporizing diesel quickly, about 100 to 200 miles, specialy squirted jet under piston equiped engines.

https://youtu.be/QBO5E63iRyw


That is NOT an Amsoil spokesperson. He is a dealer, just as I am. He's not always wrong, but sometimes I think he just likes to hear himself talk.

Originally Posted By: Shannow


One reason why I think the guy in the video doesn't get what he's talking about...here's a distillation curve of #2

distillation-profile.jpg


Yes, SOME of the fuel can likely be boiled out, but there's going to be plenty that's not.

The bit that's left is clearly likely to be the heavy end, so the oil will be shear thinning (VIIs), oxidative thickening, soot thickening, and fuel either thinning or thickening depending on the fuel and the internal engine temperatures


Great post!
Pablo - does Amsoil actually state that 9% dilution is not a problem or is it this guy's opinion with nothing to back it up?
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
With all of this being said about fuel dilution my current truck is a 6.7 PowerStroke with currently 30,000 mi. and I haven't experienced any fuel dilution per UOA. I haven't heard of fuel dilution being an issue with this platform, and if it is then there is an issue with an injector(s) and not related to the diesel after treatment system.
I have read just the opposite and this is totally dependent on usage. If you are putting all highway miles on the truck, then dilution with not be that much of an issue, but if you have more idle time or city miles, you will see more regens and dilution as a consequence. There are no injector issues on the trucks experiencing dilution, just varied usage.


Are you seeing fuel dilution with your new motorhome? My summer usage is 95% highway, but the rest of the year, November through May my highway usage is maybe 20% with many short trips. This thread just seems to be addressing a problem that may or may not exist. I know several people with the 6.7 and none are having fuel dilution problems. I know the 6.4 had major fuel dilution issues with the oil level as it would rise inches up on the dipstick.

I have had multiple regens begin just before I would reach my destination, and then complete as needed later and my UOA's have all come back perfect. I will admit I was somewhat skeptical of the reliability of all of the required emissions equipment when I first bought the truck, but after driving for 30,000 mi. and UOA evidence has proven that its a non issue.
 
Hi Roadrunner1,

Have not done a UOA yet. Coming up on 5,000 miles on oil now. My understanding is similar to 2015 PSD...lots of highway (less regens) should translate into no fuel dilution problems...but have yet to test theory in my application. I have had regens every 500 miles except one time at 150 miles (had to drive unloaded for warranty repairs). Will definitely let you know what I find. Thanks goodness for the Scanguage II...not sure I would be able to track regens.
 
I just had an extra gauge added that lets you see what your exhaust filter percentage is. It goes in the blank gauge on the productivity screen in the center of the dash. My dealer activated it for me last week. He doesn't charge me for these things and it gives me something else to look at. If anyone has the screen in the center of the gauge cluster and its '15 or newer it can be activated.

As I left the dealership it read 95%, a few miles down the road it reached 100% and went into regen, took it down to 20% after 22 miles and its currently 40% after roughly 175 mi., so as I said it gives you something else to watch, but not necessary.
 
Nice Roadrunner. Mine is a 2014 cab & chassis. Scan Guage was the only one that worked on cab & chassis variant. I monitor soot grams per liter. I only wanted it to make sure I don't shut truck off during regen.
 
As I stated previously I have multiple times and it just doesn't seem to be an issue. The programming tries to make the regen process as unobtrusive as possible across the board by all of the diesel manufacturers.

My dad recently picked up an '15 Ram/Cummins and found in the owners manual not to shut truck off while its in regen, but theres no notification as to when a regen starts or in process.
 
Interesting on the '15 Ram. It was my understanding that it was not good...I think the Turbo gets really hot during regen. That has always bogged my mind why they didn't put a regen on/off indicator somewhere???
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Can't speak to the Stroke, but my Detroit Series 60 12.7L does great on a 10w30. I didn't tear the motor open to check, but I noticed no difference in start crank time after the truck had recently sat for 3 weeks in approx 35F temps. And the oil does a great job pulling around 80K lb of truck and load. Detroit offer up recommendation for 15w40, 10w30, 5w40 for the Series 60, with 10w30 approved for year round use. Fact is, every major heavy diesel OEM is factory filling with 10w30 now and has been for a while. I am quite sure they have done similar testing as the OP is asking for and not found it to be an issue.


I just switched over to 10w30 semi-synthetic Mobil Delvac Elite in my Series 60 Detroit a few thousand miles ago. At this point, I also can't tell any differences performance-wise compared to the conventional 15w40 Mobil Delvac 1300 Super that I usually use. My reason for going to the 10w30 is for easier cold starting in the Winter months, as where I park my truck and trailer during off time doesn't have outlets to plug my engine's block heater into.

Once Spring hits, I'll probably switch back to the 15w40 Delvac 1300 Super.
 
That is what I am doing. I have a drum of 15w40 Schaeffer blend still to use, but am using a batch of Schaeffer 10w30 blend for the winter. When the warm weather rolls around, I will go back and use up the 15w40 I have in stock. My 60 really seems to like the 10w30. Will have a UOA going in at the end of next week and will compare.
 
Schaeffer 711 10w30 blend, factory rebuilt Detroit 60 493387 miles on rebuild, 20100 miles on oil 2 qts makeup oil

Iron 28, Chrom 2, Lead 6, Copper 1, Tin 0, Alum 1
Sodium 22, Potassium 2, Magnesium 985, Calcium 1494, Phos 1276, Zinc 1573, Moly 68
Vis @ 100c 11.53 TBN 8.14 Oxi 16 Nit 8

Compared to a previous Schaeffer 700 15w40 blend, sample with similar miles on oil, same 2 qt make up oil

Iron 28, Chrom 1, Lead 6, Copper 0, Tin 1, Alum 1
Sodium 14, Potassium 5, Magnesium 821, Calcium 1137, Phos 1109, Zinc 1394, Moly 42
Vis @ 100c 14.2 TBN 6.83 Oxi 12 Nit 6
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Schaeffer 711 10w30 blend, factory rebuilt Detroit 60 493387 miles on rebuild, 20100 miles on oil 2 qts makeup oil

Iron 28, Chrom 2, Lead 6, Copper 1, Tin 0, Alum 1
Sodium 22, Potassium 2, Magnesium 985, Calcium 1494, Phos 1276, Zinc 1573, Moly 68
Vis @ 100c 11.53 TBN 8.14 Oxi 16 Nit 8

Compared to a previous Schaeffer 700 15w40 blend, sample with similar miles on oil, same 2 qt make up oil

Iron 28, Chrom 1, Lead 6, Copper 0, Tin 1, Alum 1
Sodium 14, Potassium 5, Magnesium 821, Calcium 1137, Phos 1109, Zinc 1394, Moly 42
Vis @ 100c 14.2 TBN 6.83 Oxi 12 Nit 6


Very nice. Do they (Shaeffer) charge more for the 10W30 vs their 15W40? The TBN is very impressive for both, but wow the 711 is really good.
 
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
With all of this being said about fuel dilution my current truck is a 6.7 PowerStroke with currently 30,000 mi. and I haven't experienced any fuel dilution per UOA. I haven't heard of fuel dilution being an issue with this platform, and if it is then there is an issue with an injector(s) and not related to the diesel after treatment system.

The 6.7 doesn't appear to have dilution issues. The 6.4 does. My BIL has a 6.7 PStroke that gets MC 15w40 when the monitor calls for it. I cannot convince him other wise, even showing him the oil cap calling for 10w30. Certainly no harm done to the truck, it runs like a top, and the one UOA I did was very good.
I've been running 10w30 in my 6.0 for 3 years now, based on many threads here, and find easier cold starts, and have found what others have... it goes in a 30 weight and comes out a 30 weight at change time. I've run Brad-Penn, Rotella, and VPB all in 10w30 with similar results. VPB is in right now for the second time, from the NAPA spring sale last year. Next run is JD Plus 50II: not as cheap as VPB, but roadrunner swears by it, and based on his posts and results alone I'm giving it a go.
I've been hoarding overtime and banking the funds. My 03 is headed to a reputable shop in 3 weeks for studs, gaskets, a Bulletproof Diesel EGR cooler and new factory oil cooler. I'm planning on doing some serious travelling next year towing the TT, and this is a preventative measure... I have no issues right now, I just don't want any in the future.
 
Originally Posted By: beanoil
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
With all of this being said about fuel dilution my current truck is a 6.7 PowerStroke with currently 30,000 mi. and I haven't experienced any fuel dilution per UOA. I haven't heard of fuel dilution being an issue with this platform, and if it is then there is an issue with an injector(s) and not related to the diesel after treatment system.

The 6.7 doesn't appear to have dilution issues. The 6.4 does. My BIL has a 6.7 PStroke that gets MC 15w40 when the monitor calls for it. I cannot convince him other wise, even showing him the oil cap calling for 10w30. Certainly no harm done to the truck, it runs like a top, and the one UOA I did was very good.
I've been running 10w30 in my 6.0 for 3 years now, based on many threads here, and find easier cold starts, and have found what others have... it goes in a 30 weight and comes out a 30 weight at change time. I've run Brad-Penn, Rotella, and VPB all in 10w30 with similar results. VPB is in right now for the second time, from the NAPA spring sale last year. Next run is JD Plus 50II: not as cheap as VPB, but roadrunner swears by it, and based on his posts and results alone I'm giving it a go.
I've been hoarding overtime and banking the funds. My 03 is headed to a reputable shop in 3 weeks for studs, gaskets, a Bulletproof Diesel EGR cooler and new factory oil cooler. I'm planning on doing some serious travelling next year towing the TT, and this is a preventative measure... I have no issues right now, I just don't want any in the future.


I am eager to see a UOA from the Plus 50II as I am the only one who has posted them here as far as I know. The Deere lube is still cheaper that the Shell Rotella 5w-40 and other 5w-40 offerings. Through UOA it still provided better results.
 
Originally Posted By: Pontual
And that essay of your is only applicable to a no name 2700 cc 5 cylinders, it seems that no even the authors knew its name, manufacturer etc... Pretty worthless it is! Just applicable to that undestatable engine. And you guys call that scientific? Bahahaha


Mercedes used a 2700cc 5 cilinder diesel engine a few years ago...
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Amsoil says that even having up to 9% fuel dilution in post injection DPF isnt making more engine wear, in oils in general ... Diesel vid on youtube ...
Here is part 2 where Watson says Engines are vaporizing diesel quickly, about 100 to 200 miles, specialy squirted jet under piston equiped engines.

https://youtu.be/QBO5E63iRyw


One reason why I think the guy in the video doesn't get what he's talking about...here's a distillation curve of #2

distillation-profile.jpg


Yes, SOME of the fuel can likely be boiled out, but there's going to be plenty that's not.

The bit that's left is clearly likely to be the heavy end, so the oil will be shear thinning (VIIs), oxidative thickening, soot thickening, and fuel either thinning or thickening depending on the fuel and the internal engine temperatures



From experience, and about 70% of the cars I service have a DPF, fuel dilution leads to thinning esp when you reach 20% increase in sump content it's very visible. God knows how much has already evaporated or got consumed one way or another. But it's not an issue if the drive cycle is suitable for a dpf diesel unless the dpf or catalyst is getting old.

Only non-dpf diesels seem to increase the oil viscosity significantly by the end of the oci (and then only some cars/drivers).
 
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