What do you consider high mileage?
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For me there was something psychological about going over 300,000 but really nothing changed. I'm pretty much thinking 400,000 is "high mileage" now.
High mileage per year can imply that it's been cruising easy miles on the highway. It may well be better off than a car that's been in lots of city traffic.
Miles aren't a very good metric really, but it gets a lot of attention because it's the only information we have to work with other than years of age. The car's environment, operating profile, and maintenance are such huge variables that miles have very different levels of significance to different cars (even of the same model).
Running hours could be good info to add to the equation, but most cars don't track that as far as I know. I don't spend much time with newfangled 21st century vehicles though.
The ECM in modern cars uses an algorithm to compute when oil changes are recommended. If the information it's utilizing could be easily summarized and retrieved, it could also serve as a better estimate of drivetrain wear. But if the info were too detailed, then it could also get a little big brotherish.
I used to be nervous about buying a car over ~150K. Now I'd be willing to go higher. In fact, because I like old cars, I can't be too picky anyway. The cars I like keep getting older.
The car I drive now was bought cheap at 172K and is now at 205K, still solid and reliable. It's more reliable than many cars half it's age.
I had a similar model years ago that was from the Chicago area, and it was a rusted decrepit disaster at 120K. The difference between them was environment.
For a sufficiently aged car, the miles start to lose significance. If I was shopping to buy, then I suppose ~200K would be a psychological gut check but I wouldn't rule it out. If it was a question of whether to keep, then the miles don't matter. In that case I already know the car better than the odometer does.
Miles aren't a very good metric really, but it gets a lot of attention because it's the only information we have to work with other than years of age. The car's environment, operating profile, and maintenance are such huge variables that miles have very different levels of significance to different cars (even of the same model).
Running hours could be good info to add to the equation, but most cars don't track that as far as I know. I don't spend much time with newfangled 21st century vehicles though.
The ECM in modern cars uses an algorithm to compute when oil changes are recommended. If the information it's utilizing could be easily summarized and retrieved, it could also serve as a better estimate of drivetrain wear. But if the info were too detailed, then it could also get a little big brotherish.
I used to be nervous about buying a car over ~150K. Now I'd be willing to go higher. In fact, because I like old cars, I can't be too picky anyway. The cars I like keep getting older.
The car I drive now was bought cheap at 172K and is now at 205K, still solid and reliable. It's more reliable than many cars half it's age.
I had a similar model years ago that was from the Chicago area, and it was a rusted decrepit disaster at 120K. The difference between them was environment.
For a sufficiently aged car, the miles start to lose significance. If I was shopping to buy, then I suppose ~200K would be a psychological gut check but I wouldn't rule it out. If it was a question of whether to keep, then the miles don't matter. In that case I already know the car better than the odometer does.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Kool1
100,000 miles = vehicle is broken in
200,000 miles = got my money's worth
300,000 miles = driving on borrowed time
Sounds good to me! I consider 100k the halfway point in a car's life. Anything over 200k is gravy.
As engines are smaller in Europe, so are the mileage limits.
100,000+ km (62,000 miles) = Engine is broken in
200,000+ km (124,000 miles) = Easy to achieve, but this is the point where things start to happen
300,000+ km (186,000 miles) = Good luck
Originally Posted By: Kool1
100,000 miles = vehicle is broken in
200,000 miles = got my money's worth
300,000 miles = driving on borrowed time
Sounds good to me! I consider 100k the halfway point in a car's life. Anything over 200k is gravy.
As engines are smaller in Europe, so are the mileage limits.
100,000+ km (62,000 miles) = Engine is broken in
200,000+ km (124,000 miles) = Easy to achieve, but this is the point where things start to happen
300,000+ km (186,000 miles) = Good luck
Myself 150k is upper mileage.
Why? The actual design life by car makers for majority of components is that. My personal findings are once you hit 150k the amount of problems definitely increases and many components wear out like exhaust, radiator, suspension bits etc so cost of ownership increases.
Maybe my 07 Acura MDX will buck that trend of more problems at 150k+. Its been trouble free thus far from 84k-145k except for a wheel speed sensor.
Why? The actual design life by car makers for majority of components is that. My personal findings are once you hit 150k the amount of problems definitely increases and many components wear out like exhaust, radiator, suspension bits etc so cost of ownership increases.
Maybe my 07 Acura MDX will buck that trend of more problems at 150k+. Its been trouble free thus far from 84k-145k except for a wheel speed sensor.
It depends on the car and the part.
90K is extremely high mileage for an RX-7 Turbo engine or most Chrysler 4 speed automatics.
On a car built well, I consider 150,000 miles to be high.
90K is extremely high mileage for an RX-7 Turbo engine or most Chrysler 4 speed automatics.
On a car built well, I consider 150,000 miles to be high.
There's something else to consider in a high mileage car besides expected routine maintenance. How many little things don't work anymore, that you're willing to put up with because you can't bother to fix them or it would be too expensive and you can do without them.
The only such failure on my Honda was the speedometer which I replaced at 200K miles.
I've seen lots of little things fail on expensive cars that make one wonder if they only strive to make things good enough for the first owner. I also wonder if the 80's and 90's for Honda and Toyota were years that the manufactures put a little extra effort into quality.
The only such failure on my Honda was the speedometer which I replaced at 200K miles.
I've seen lots of little things fail on expensive cars that make one wonder if they only strive to make things good enough for the first owner. I also wonder if the 80's and 90's for Honda and Toyota were years that the manufactures put a little extra effort into quality.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I've seen lots of little things fail on expensive cars that make one wonder if they only strive to make things good enough for the first owner. I also wonder if the 80's and 90's for Honda and Toyota were years that the manufactures put a little extra effort into quality.
I have heard numerous complaints that 90s Toyotas weren't as good as 80s Toyotas. Several years ago I was working on a 3.4L Toyota 4Runner with 180,000 miles. He had a leaking power steering rack and he needed new ball joints. He burned with rage because he had some 80s Toyota pickup and never had to have a suspension component replaced in over 200,000 miles.
I told him that it is unfortunate that you have to replace these items, but if you had another kind of truck, you would have had to do all that stuff years ago. He still burned with rage, but at least he calmed down a little bit.
I've seen lots of little things fail on expensive cars that make one wonder if they only strive to make things good enough for the first owner. I also wonder if the 80's and 90's for Honda and Toyota were years that the manufactures put a little extra effort into quality.
I have heard numerous complaints that 90s Toyotas weren't as good as 80s Toyotas. Several years ago I was working on a 3.4L Toyota 4Runner with 180,000 miles. He had a leaking power steering rack and he needed new ball joints. He burned with rage because he had some 80s Toyota pickup and never had to have a suspension component replaced in over 200,000 miles.
I told him that it is unfortunate that you have to replace these items, but if you had another kind of truck, you would have had to do all that stuff years ago. He still burned with rage, but at least he calmed down a little bit.
Originally Posted By: dblshock
Almost any nameplate can go 300k, question is:
At what repair cost?
Another potential pitfall is like this new '16 Civic, good genetics but all new tec..think they'll have issues? '16 Corolla by contrast has an old driveline but bet they go way further on fewer repair dollars.
Toyota has the most durable line-up for the long haul...Honda a distant #2 ..the rest vye for the sub-prime third, fourth and below.
And that isn't supported by JD Power and consumer reports. They make very good cars but so do other manufacturers and both have been outraged by other brands at times.
Almost any nameplate can go 300k, question is:
At what repair cost?
Another potential pitfall is like this new '16 Civic, good genetics but all new tec..think they'll have issues? '16 Corolla by contrast has an old driveline but bet they go way further on fewer repair dollars.
Toyota has the most durable line-up for the long haul...Honda a distant #2 ..the rest vye for the sub-prime third, fourth and below.
And that isn't supported by JD Power and consumer reports. They make very good cars but so do other manufacturers and both have been outraged by other brands at times.
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Myself 150k is upper mileage.
Why? The actual design life by car makers for majority of components is that. My personal findings are once you hit 150k the amount of problems definitely increases and many components wear out like exhaust, radiator, suspension bits etc so cost of ownership increases.
Maybe my 07 Acura MDX will buck that trend of more problems at 150k+. Its been trouble free thus far from 84k-145k except for a wheel speed sensor.
Your bring up a good point.....I notice your from New England.......here in Florida its almost unheard of to have any exhaust issues especially at 150k. I imagine the salt is hard on all components even though cars are better built today.
Myself 150k is upper mileage.
Why? The actual design life by car makers for majority of components is that. My personal findings are once you hit 150k the amount of problems definitely increases and many components wear out like exhaust, radiator, suspension bits etc so cost of ownership increases.
Maybe my 07 Acura MDX will buck that trend of more problems at 150k+. Its been trouble free thus far from 84k-145k except for a wheel speed sensor.
Your bring up a good point.....I notice your from New England.......here in Florida its almost unheard of to have any exhaust issues especially at 150k. I imagine the salt is hard on all components even though cars are better built today.
Yeah, depends on the make and model.
I've owned three trucks:
1987 Ford F150 300 c.i. I6 - High mileage before 75k.
1994 GMC 1500 4.3L V6 - High mileage at about 125k.
2003 Chevy Silverado 5.3L V8 - At around 223k, still doesn't feel like 'high mileage'.
I've owned three trucks:
1987 Ford F150 300 c.i. I6 - High mileage before 75k.
1994 GMC 1500 4.3L V6 - High mileage at about 125k.
2003 Chevy Silverado 5.3L V8 - At around 223k, still doesn't feel like 'high mileage'.
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I've seen lots of little things fail on expensive cars that make one wonder if they only strive to make things good enough for the first owner. I also wonder if the 80's and 90's for Honda and Toyota were years that the manufactures put a little extra effort into quality.
I have heard numerous complaints that 90s Toyotas weren't as good as 80s Toyotas. Several years ago I was working on a 3.4L Toyota 4Runner with 180,000 miles. He had a leaking power steering rack and he needed new ball joints. He burned with rage because he had some 80s Toyota pickup and never had to have a suspension component replaced in over 200,000 miles.
I told him that it is unfortunate that you have to replace these items, but if you had another kind of truck, you would have had to do all that stuff years ago. He still burned with rage, but at least he calmed down a little bit.
Depends on how and where he drove it. Up North where the roads suck you'll see chassis parts fail in 60% of the life they will attain down South. Potholes cost you a lot.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I've seen lots of little things fail on expensive cars that make one wonder if they only strive to make things good enough for the first owner. I also wonder if the 80's and 90's for Honda and Toyota were years that the manufactures put a little extra effort into quality.
I have heard numerous complaints that 90s Toyotas weren't as good as 80s Toyotas. Several years ago I was working on a 3.4L Toyota 4Runner with 180,000 miles. He had a leaking power steering rack and he needed new ball joints. He burned with rage because he had some 80s Toyota pickup and never had to have a suspension component replaced in over 200,000 miles.
I told him that it is unfortunate that you have to replace these items, but if you had another kind of truck, you would have had to do all that stuff years ago. He still burned with rage, but at least he calmed down a little bit.
Depends on how and where he drove it. Up North where the roads suck you'll see chassis parts fail in 60% of the life they will attain down South. Potholes cost you a lot.
Personally, I think the term "High Mileage" has changed radically as cars have progressed. I considered the 1984 Cavalier my family had to be "high mileage" when it reached about 100,000 miles.
.. the 1983 Ford Escort my parents owned was already at that marker around 60,000 miles.
Pretty much, anything built before about 2000 (give or take a couple years) was considered 'high mileage' category by about 100k miles.
I would say though, that some time after 2000, carmakers seem to have started making them better.. at least overall.. and thus they seem to last longer. Yes, some cars still won't really last longer than about 100k, but overall, I'd say newer cars just last longer.
.. I'd say most cars built from about 2005 on could easily make it to 200,000 miles with regular maintenance.. so "High mileage" on one of these would be starting between about 150,000 and 200,000 miles.
My 2010 Fusion has already hit 210,000 miles, and I'd say is still in great shape. I think it's fair to call it a 'high mileage' vehicle, but honestly, I see no reason that it won't make it to at least 350,000 miles reliably.
.. the 1983 Ford Escort my parents owned was already at that marker around 60,000 miles.
Pretty much, anything built before about 2000 (give or take a couple years) was considered 'high mileage' category by about 100k miles.
I would say though, that some time after 2000, carmakers seem to have started making them better.. at least overall.. and thus they seem to last longer. Yes, some cars still won't really last longer than about 100k, but overall, I'd say newer cars just last longer.
.. I'd say most cars built from about 2005 on could easily make it to 200,000 miles with regular maintenance.. so "High mileage" on one of these would be starting between about 150,000 and 200,000 miles.
My 2010 Fusion has already hit 210,000 miles, and I'd say is still in great shape. I think it's fair to call it a 'high mileage' vehicle, but honestly, I see no reason that it won't make it to at least 350,000 miles reliably.
Age matters a lot more than miles over the long haul IMO, especially since high miles often represent an easier usage pattern than a car with lower miles at the same age.
I think cars that are less than 10 years old are too young to determine how reliable they are with good maintenance. I think it's still difficult to assess even at less than 15 years. I know the survey groups try to gather data for ~5yr old cars, they do it because that's what people are interested in, but I have trouble taking studies of such young cars very seriously. Whatever complaints people have with a young car probably have little relevance to what will actually kill the car at a more advanced age.
I think 10 years is about the time when many cars start to have little failures that need some attention, but it happens more frequently at 15 years. 15yrs is also around the time when the car is most likely on it's 3rd or 4th owner who might not be very good with maintenance and/or finding and fixing those little problems before they get bigger.
Cooling system faults are possibly the biggest killer of cars, especially modern cars with aluminum heads which can't take abuse well.
I think there's a lot to be said for 1 owner cars. Buying a car from a college kid is a lot more risky.
I think cars that are less than 10 years old are too young to determine how reliable they are with good maintenance. I think it's still difficult to assess even at less than 15 years. I know the survey groups try to gather data for ~5yr old cars, they do it because that's what people are interested in, but I have trouble taking studies of such young cars very seriously. Whatever complaints people have with a young car probably have little relevance to what will actually kill the car at a more advanced age.
I think 10 years is about the time when many cars start to have little failures that need some attention, but it happens more frequently at 15 years. 15yrs is also around the time when the car is most likely on it's 3rd or 4th owner who might not be very good with maintenance and/or finding and fixing those little problems before they get bigger.
Cooling system faults are possibly the biggest killer of cars, especially modern cars with aluminum heads which can't take abuse well.
I think there's a lot to be said for 1 owner cars. Buying a car from a college kid is a lot more risky.
When I'm used-car shopping, anything 150k miles or over is "high mileage".
Generally though, if it still runs and shifts well at that age, it will continue to do so under my care for a long time. I'll start to need to put a little money into suspension (and other side items), but they start getting cheap at that use point, and I make a killing on cents/mile in the end.
Generally though, if it still runs and shifts well at that age, it will continue to do so under my care for a long time. I'll start to need to put a little money into suspension (and other side items), but they start getting cheap at that use point, and I make a killing on cents/mile in the end.
I'm not so concerned about mileage as I am about service history. I have an obsession with synthetics, and doing all scheduled maintenance on time with OEM parts or better.
The Mitsubishi currently has 263,000 miles on it - I am the original owner. The Aisin transmission's factory, the heads I pulled off to replace valve seals and guides at one point four years ago. The differentials and transfer case have never been touched, other than routine fluid replacements every 25,000 miles. Engine doesn't burn oil between 6,250 mile drain intervals, and hasn't given me any major grief. In fact, I had it in for a full respray last month (two-tone paint job).
The Grand Marquis has 192,500 miles on the clock. This car was bought used with 125,000 miles. When I had issues with the transmission pump/stator, given how much I love this car, I rebuilt the transmission and the engine whilst I'm at it - beefing everything up. Throw on a locker 3.73 rear end to replace the 3.08 conventional rear end it came with from the factory, and I'm a happy camper.
At the end of the day, it comes down to personal choice and how much money you're willing to put in when push comes to shove. There isn't really much out there that interests me in the new car market, save for full size GM SUVs or maybe a VW Passat 4Motion if I want a sedan.
The Mitsubishi currently has 263,000 miles on it - I am the original owner. The Aisin transmission's factory, the heads I pulled off to replace valve seals and guides at one point four years ago. The differentials and transfer case have never been touched, other than routine fluid replacements every 25,000 miles. Engine doesn't burn oil between 6,250 mile drain intervals, and hasn't given me any major grief. In fact, I had it in for a full respray last month (two-tone paint job).
The Grand Marquis has 192,500 miles on the clock. This car was bought used with 125,000 miles. When I had issues with the transmission pump/stator, given how much I love this car, I rebuilt the transmission and the engine whilst I'm at it - beefing everything up. Throw on a locker 3.73 rear end to replace the 3.08 conventional rear end it came with from the factory, and I'm a happy camper.
At the end of the day, it comes down to personal choice and how much money you're willing to put in when push comes to shove. There isn't really much out there that interests me in the new car market, save for full size GM SUVs or maybe a VW Passat 4Motion if I want a sedan.
High mileage on diesels is totally different from gassers. Fuel, repairs, maintenance on my Golf TDI last year was 20.7 cents/mile, and I expect it to be much less this year as some long-term maintenance items should be good for a couple more years. I am paying for parts that wear out, but not for depreciation or full-coverage insurance
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