Timing Chains: 4 Bangers-How long have/do YOU go?

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Timing chains should last the life of the engine if servicing is up to scratch.
I had a Mitsubishi Diamante/Magna with the 2.6 Mits/Chrysler 4 cyl and by 270k KMs the chain sounded like it was gonna rattle through the side of the engine on start up! The head gasket went on that engine at 300k.
I've known the model Falcon I drive now to go 1.5 million KM (nearly 1 million miles) with zero major internal work (all original bearings, head and gasket, timing chain etc. Just oil/filter changes and maybe an oil seal or two) I know someone with a newer Falcon with a newer more complex DOHC version of my engine and that has around 960,000 km on it. He's had it since new, engine has only ever had oil changes and still runs sooo sweet, but recently got its 3rd transmission haha

Moral of the story, change your oil and it should outlast everything else on the car!
 
BIL ate a timing chain on an OHV Cavalier 2.2 at 200k. It was rattling before it went.

He also did in a 2004 ecotec 2.2 at 175k. Just didn't start one cold morning. Power steering runs off the cam, so it was an extra load for the chain.
 
The Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2L turbo had bad chains from the beginning. It took a couple years before the came out with a new one that didn't stretch. It will toast the motor if you don't catch it.

48BE5E5D-DB12-4CA2-B02B-9B9EAA7DAD9F_zpskzdkurhr.jpg
 
140k and counting on my 2.2L ecotec Vue. No plans to ever change it. If I get startup tick, I know there's an updated tensioner to easily swap in. Much better than the 90k T-belt changes on my old Mazda. Had to do 3 of them!
 
165k on my Audi. The chains are not an issue on these cars, it's the chain tensioner. It's a hydraulic contraption powered by oil pressure. With time, it hardens and stops creating tension. When the chain jumps a tooth then BAM! bent valves.
 
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
165k on my Audi. The chains are not an issue on these cars, it's the chain tensioner. It's a hydraulic contraption powered by oil pressure. With time, it hardens and stops creating tension. When the chain jumps a tooth then BAM! bent valves.



Sounds like something Audi would make.
 
Timing chain stretching is a pattern failure in Nissan Primera P12 gasoline engines.

The engine starts to jerk randomly and OBD-II fault code P0335 is triggered. It may also be difficult to start the engine and idle might be rough. This happens typically at around 200,000 +- 50,000 km (125,000 +- 30,000 miles).

As the chain is ment to last for the lifetime of the engine, it’s not an easy task to change it. For a skilled mechanic it takes the whole working day to do the job. So it’s a bit costly, at least 1,000 euros to get the chain, tensioner, guides and sprockets changed.
 
Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
165k on my Audi. The chains are not an issue on these cars, it's the chain tensioner. It's a hydraulic contraption powered by oil pressure. With time, it hardens and stops creating tension. When the chain jumps a tooth then BAM! bent valves.



Sounds like something Audi would make.


This is how most timing chain tensioners work: oil pressure. Many are ratcheted, to try to account for chain wear over time.

Some timing chain systems are very well designed, and some are not. I've owned a few of both, a Nissan KA24E being one of the worst, and a Cadillac Northstar being one of the best. You almost never hear of problems with a Northstar's timing chain system, but failures of Nissan's KA timing chains is well documented. Unfortunately, you rarely have this information up front...it takes years to manifest itself in the field.
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Timing chains are not a service item on modern vehicles.
Until they stretch of break.
 
My dad just bought new Nissan Pulsar, which has 1.2 liter gasoline turbo engine, DIG-T 115.

The maintenance booklet gives the following maintenance schedule:
- Change oil and filter every 20,000 km (12,500 miles) => Check
- Change engine air filter every 60,000 km (37,500 miles) => Check
- Change timing chain every 300,000 km (186,500 miles) => WHAAT!?

Yes, it actually says so
smile.gif


So, it's not a pattern failure anymore. It's a periodic maintenance item...
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Some timing chain systems are very well designed, and some are not. I've owned a few of both, a Nissan KA24E being one of the worst, and a Cadillac Northstar being one of the best. You almost never hear of problems with a Northstar's timing chain system, but failures of Nissan's KA timing chains is well documented. Unfortunately, you rarely have this information up front...it takes years to manifest itself in the field.


The Nissan KA24E (single cam) chain would rattle around against the block and eat right into the water jacket. Been there, done that. The KA24DE (dual cam) does not have this problem. I have well over 225,000 miles on mine now, probably a lot more than that as my odometer quit years ago at 200,000.

I've been in a lot of junkyards and some cars seem to have really, really small chains. I don't know how they hold up. Others, the chains are very beefy and look like they would last forever.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
165k on my Audi. The chains are not an issue on these cars, it's the chain tensioner. It's a hydraulic contraption powered by oil pressure. With time, it hardens and stops creating tension. When the chain jumps a tooth then BAM! bent valves.



Sounds like something Audi would make.


This is how most timing chain tensioners work: oil pressure. Many are ratcheted, to try to account for chain wear over time.

Some timing chain systems are very well designed, and some are not. I've owned a few of both, a Nissan KA24E being one of the worst, and a Cadillac Northstar being one of the best. You almost never hear of problems with a Northstar's timing chain system, but failures of Nissan's KA timing chains is well documented. Unfortunately, you rarely have this information up front...it takes years to manifest itself in the field.


I was under the impression that most tensioners are not hydraulic like the Audi, they are a spring driven worm and sector type set ups or simple spring loaded arms or plungers with ratchets to prevent push back. The majority are well designed and don't have a reputation for causing engine failure, like the Audi part.

I would not expect to hear about many Northstar chain issues because so many of those engines don't make it to a mileage that even a timing belt could handle.

Audi V8, can you spot the tensioners?

s4v8.jpg

And a very comparable Ford 4.6 DOHC V8 from the Mark VIII and Cobras

Engineteardown021.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
165k on my Audi. The chains are not an issue on these cars, it's the chain tensioner. It's a hydraulic contraption powered by oil pressure. With time, it hardens and stops creating tension. When the chain jumps a tooth then BAM! bent valves.



Sounds like something Audi would make.


Actually, I recall Honda used that same design (minus the BAM! part) on motorcycles since the 80's.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Timing chains are not a service item on modern vehicles.
Until they stretch of break.


Then it's time for a new car. I don't service the chains on an of my cars. By the time it's time to PM the chain, you've gotten your money's worth out of the car and the cost to replace is better spent towards a new car.
 
Good work on the GF's car! Gasbuggy.


What kills chains?

Low on oil, extended oil changes, high rpm?




My Saturn went about 220,000 before causing problems. Gas milege suffered somewhat (~5mpg) and the revs would top out at just over 3000rpm, just enough to cruise along at 70mph until it became unreliable and would have trouble starting and idling after 290,000 miles.

Twin cam SC2.

There was a brochure I saw online that stated the Saturn's chain was good for 200k.
 
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Timing chains are not a service item on modern vehicles.
Until they stretch of break.


Then it's time for a new car. I don't service the chains on an of my cars. By the time it's time to PM the chain, you've gotten your money's worth out of the car and the cost to replace is better spent towards a new car.


Yep, I wouldn't even consider proactively changing a chain. The case could be made to proactively change every part on a car since they all have a defined lifespan and "can" fail.
 
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