Interesting, and deadly , the 410 round..
Don't underestimate the 410.
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Seriously, a .410 is for girls. Great for snakes, not for people. Get someone mad, full of rage attacking. I want something bigger than a .410.
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Seriously, a .410 is for girls. Great for snakes, not for people. Get someone mad, full of rage attacking. I want something bigger than a .410.
This is typical American logic . I have to have the biggest gun possible to do the job . I have went turkey hunting with my old mossberg 410 and it did the job fine. Sure you can't be 100 yards away but part of the fun and skill is drawing them close to you.
Seriously, a .410 is for girls. Great for snakes, not for people. Get someone mad, full of rage attacking. I want something bigger than a .410.
This is typical American logic . I have to have the biggest gun possible to do the job . I have went turkey hunting with my old mossberg 410 and it did the job fine. Sure you can't be 100 yards away but part of the fun and skill is drawing them close to you.
Mav 88 12GA.....go big or go home
A hit from a 410 shot could certainly mess up your day.
Anyone coming after you that gets hit at close range will have more important problems to take care of than dealing with you.
Anyone coming after you that gets hit at close range will have more important problems to take care of than dealing with you.
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Seriously, a .410 is for girls. Great for snakes, not for people. Get someone mad, full of rage attacking. I want something bigger than a .410.
A round of Winchester PDX from a 410 would leave you thinking other wise. This is what we use in a pump action. Have to keep in mind some people can't handle a 12 gauge or 20 gauge due to previous shoulder injuries.
Seriously, a .410 is for girls. Great for snakes, not for people. Get someone mad, full of rage attacking. I want something bigger than a .410.
A round of Winchester PDX from a 410 would leave you thinking other wise. This is what we use in a pump action. Have to keep in mind some people can't handle a 12 gauge or 20 gauge due to previous shoulder injuries.
I do want something more powerful when someone on crack or meth is attacking. Now if this is the strongest you can handle due to injury or whatever...then by all means use this. I just want something I know will put down someone on drugs and rage.
I certainly wouldn't volunteer to be shot with anything no matter what the caliber
I wouldn't want to be shot with it, however I've seen a deer take 5 shots to the chest from .410 slugs over a period of 1/2 hour and get up and run.
Last year my dad took out his .410 pump to deer hunt as he had a stint put in a couple weeks before the season and didn't want to shoot his 12 guage with slugs. an 8 point buck walked up about 15 feet from him. he shot it in the chest. It ran and laid down in some weeds. After about 15 mins he was just sitting there about 20 yards away looking back and forth, hit but not dying very fast. he shot him again. repeat the process a few more times over the next 30 mins, as the deer just didn't seemed phased much.
My dad called me after the third shot to start walking that way, that he would need help soon to dress and drag it. When i arrived the deer jumped up and ran 40-50 yards and stopped right on a hill above the creek. I was carrying my .44 Mag handi-rifle with 225 Gr Hornady FTX. I pulled up quick and put a round right under the left shoulder, the round hit the lungs clipped the heart and came out directly through the shoulder on the other side breaking it. The deer collapsed.
There were 5 slug entries from the 410, and 1 exit. 3 of them the processor found lodged against the shoulder breaking only the skin, another caught by a rib. only 1 .410 shot penetrated through but it missed all vital organs. The .44mag coming out of a rifle on the other hand did some serious damage.
From now on the .410 is used only for squirrel. It is not fit for deer hunting IMO. A .410 will definitely ruin someones day, but it is under powered against a 200+LB 6 foot bad guy especially using buck shot. My home Defense shotgun is a 20ga pump. I throw in a Slug on the 2nd and 4th shots.
If you only have a .410 shotgun use it, but a 20ga is a better option for a home defense gun. Nothing beats a 12ga, however I do understand that a 12 is too much for many women and men to shoo.
Last year my dad took out his .410 pump to deer hunt as he had a stint put in a couple weeks before the season and didn't want to shoot his 12 guage with slugs. an 8 point buck walked up about 15 feet from him. he shot it in the chest. It ran and laid down in some weeds. After about 15 mins he was just sitting there about 20 yards away looking back and forth, hit but not dying very fast. he shot him again. repeat the process a few more times over the next 30 mins, as the deer just didn't seemed phased much.
My dad called me after the third shot to start walking that way, that he would need help soon to dress and drag it. When i arrived the deer jumped up and ran 40-50 yards and stopped right on a hill above the creek. I was carrying my .44 Mag handi-rifle with 225 Gr Hornady FTX. I pulled up quick and put a round right under the left shoulder, the round hit the lungs clipped the heart and came out directly through the shoulder on the other side breaking it. The deer collapsed.
There were 5 slug entries from the 410, and 1 exit. 3 of them the processor found lodged against the shoulder breaking only the skin, another caught by a rib. only 1 .410 shot penetrated through but it missed all vital organs. The .44mag coming out of a rifle on the other hand did some serious damage.
From now on the .410 is used only for squirrel. It is not fit for deer hunting IMO. A .410 will definitely ruin someones day, but it is under powered against a 200+LB 6 foot bad guy especially using buck shot. My home Defense shotgun is a 20ga pump. I throw in a Slug on the 2nd and 4th shots.
If you only have a .410 shotgun use it, but a 20ga is a better option for a home defense gun. Nothing beats a 12ga, however I do understand that a 12 is too much for many women and men to shoo.
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Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Seriously, a .410 is for girls. Great for snakes, not for people. Get someone mad, full of rage attacking. I want something bigger than a .410.
If you see a guy shooting trap/skeet well with a .410, you know he's a master. Most people use a 12ga, but the pros will use a 20ga or even a .410.
It's all about horses for courses...
Seriously, a .410 is for girls. Great for snakes, not for people. Get someone mad, full of rage attacking. I want something bigger than a .410.
If you see a guy shooting trap/skeet well with a .410, you know he's a master. Most people use a 12ga, but the pros will use a 20ga or even a .410.
It's all about horses for courses...
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
I wouldn't want to be shot with it, however I've seen a deer take 5 shots to the chest from .410 slugs over a period of 1/2 hour and get up and run.
Last year my dad took out his .410 pump to deer hunt as he had a stint put in a couple weeks before the season and didn't want to shoot his 12 guage with slugs. an 8 point buck walked up about 15 feet from him. he shot it in the chest. It ran and laid down in some weeds. After about 15 mins he was just sitting there about 20 yards away looking back and forth, hit but not dying very fast. he shot him again. repeat the process a few more times over the next 30 mins, as the deer just didn't seemed phased much.
My dad called me after the third shot to start walking that way, that he would need help soon to dress and drag it. When i arrived the deer jumped up and ran 40-50 yards and stopped right on a hill above the creek. I was carrying my .44 Mag handi-rifle with 225 Gr Hornady FTX. I pulled up quick and put a round right under the left shoulder, the round hit the lungs clipped the heart and came out directly through the shoulder on the other side breaking it. The deer collapsed.
There were 5 slug entries from the 410, and 1 exit. 3 of them the processor found lodged against the shoulder breaking only the skin, another caught by a rib. only 1 .410 shot penetrated through but it missed all vital organs. The .44mag coming out of a rifle on the other hand did some serious damage.
From now on the .410 is used only for squirrel. It is not fit for deer hunting IMO. A .410 will definitely ruin someones day, but it is under powered against a 200+LB 6 foot bad guy especially using buck shot. My home Defense shotgun is a 20ga pump. I throw in a Slug on the 2nd and 4th shots.
If you only have a .410 shotgun use it, but a 20ga is a better option for a home defense gun. Nothing beats a 12ga, however I do understand that a 12 is too much for many women and men to shoo.
Absolutely, Deer are tough critters and will keep on trying to live and get away with every ounce of survival instinct they have.
Humans are an entirely different ...animal (couldn't resist) in my opinion. So it really depends on whether you are arguing .410 use for self defense, or for hunting deer.
Two entirely different criteria, and likely different types of shells unless you are using slugs for self defense, so really the whole thing is apples and oranges.
Regardless, like you I would rather use 12ga in both circumstances.
I wouldn't want to be shot with it, however I've seen a deer take 5 shots to the chest from .410 slugs over a period of 1/2 hour and get up and run.
Last year my dad took out his .410 pump to deer hunt as he had a stint put in a couple weeks before the season and didn't want to shoot his 12 guage with slugs. an 8 point buck walked up about 15 feet from him. he shot it in the chest. It ran and laid down in some weeds. After about 15 mins he was just sitting there about 20 yards away looking back and forth, hit but not dying very fast. he shot him again. repeat the process a few more times over the next 30 mins, as the deer just didn't seemed phased much.
My dad called me after the third shot to start walking that way, that he would need help soon to dress and drag it. When i arrived the deer jumped up and ran 40-50 yards and stopped right on a hill above the creek. I was carrying my .44 Mag handi-rifle with 225 Gr Hornady FTX. I pulled up quick and put a round right under the left shoulder, the round hit the lungs clipped the heart and came out directly through the shoulder on the other side breaking it. The deer collapsed.
There were 5 slug entries from the 410, and 1 exit. 3 of them the processor found lodged against the shoulder breaking only the skin, another caught by a rib. only 1 .410 shot penetrated through but it missed all vital organs. The .44mag coming out of a rifle on the other hand did some serious damage.
From now on the .410 is used only for squirrel. It is not fit for deer hunting IMO. A .410 will definitely ruin someones day, but it is under powered against a 200+LB 6 foot bad guy especially using buck shot. My home Defense shotgun is a 20ga pump. I throw in a Slug on the 2nd and 4th shots.
If you only have a .410 shotgun use it, but a 20ga is a better option for a home defense gun. Nothing beats a 12ga, however I do understand that a 12 is too much for many women and men to shoo.
Absolutely, Deer are tough critters and will keep on trying to live and get away with every ounce of survival instinct they have.
Humans are an entirely different ...animal (couldn't resist) in my opinion. So it really depends on whether you are arguing .410 use for self defense, or for hunting deer.
Two entirely different criteria, and likely different types of shells unless you are using slugs for self defense, so really the whole thing is apples and oranges.
Regardless, like you I would rather use 12ga in both circumstances.
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
I wouldn't want to be shot with it, however I've seen a deer take 5 shots to the chest from .410 slugs over a period of 1/2 hour and get up and run.
Last year my dad took out his .410 pump to deer hunt as he had a stint put in a couple weeks before the season and didn't want to shoot his 12 guage with slugs. an 8 point buck walked up about 15 feet from him. he shot it in the chest. It ran and laid down in some weeds. After about 15 mins he was just sitting there about 20 yards away looking back and forth, hit but not dying very fast. he shot him again. repeat the process a few more times over the next 30 mins, as the deer just didn't seemed phased much.
My dad called me after the third shot to start walking that way, that he would need help soon to dress and drag it. When i arrived the deer jumped up and ran 40-50 yards and stopped right on a hill above the creek. I was carrying my .44 Mag handi-rifle with 225 Gr Hornady FTX. I pulled up quick and put a round right under the left shoulder, the round hit the lungs clipped the heart and came out directly through the shoulder on the other side breaking it. The deer collapsed.
There were 5 slug entries from the 410, and 1 exit. 3 of them the processor found lodged against the shoulder breaking only the skin, another caught by a rib. only 1 .410 shot penetrated through but it missed all vital organs. The .44mag coming out of a rifle on the other hand did some serious damage.
From now on the .410 is used only for squirrel. It is not fit for deer hunting IMO. A .410 will definitely ruin someones day, but it is under powered against a 200+LB 6 foot bad guy especially using buck shot. My home Defense shotgun is a 20ga pump. I throw in a Slug on the 2nd and 4th shots.
If you only have a .410 shotgun use it, but a 20ga is a better option for a home defense gun. Nothing beats a 12ga, however I do understand that a 12 is too much for many women and men to shoo.
Absolutely, Deer are tough critters and will keep on trying to live and get away with every ounce of survival instinct they have.
Humans are an entirely different ...animal (couldn't resist) in my opinion. So it really depends on whether you are arguing .410 use for self defense, or for hunting deer.
Two entirely different criteria, and likely different types of shells unless you are using slugs for self defense, so really the whole thing is apples and oranges.
Regardless, like you I would rather use 12ga in both circumstances.
You can use a .410 for deer? In Wisconsin Im 96% sure thats illegal. 20 ga or bigger and .223 or bigger for rifle. Like I said 96% sure lol
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
I wouldn't want to be shot with it, however I've seen a deer take 5 shots to the chest from .410 slugs over a period of 1/2 hour and get up and run.
Last year my dad took out his .410 pump to deer hunt as he had a stint put in a couple weeks before the season and didn't want to shoot his 12 guage with slugs. an 8 point buck walked up about 15 feet from him. he shot it in the chest. It ran and laid down in some weeds. After about 15 mins he was just sitting there about 20 yards away looking back and forth, hit but not dying very fast. he shot him again. repeat the process a few more times over the next 30 mins, as the deer just didn't seemed phased much.
My dad called me after the third shot to start walking that way, that he would need help soon to dress and drag it. When i arrived the deer jumped up and ran 40-50 yards and stopped right on a hill above the creek. I was carrying my .44 Mag handi-rifle with 225 Gr Hornady FTX. I pulled up quick and put a round right under the left shoulder, the round hit the lungs clipped the heart and came out directly through the shoulder on the other side breaking it. The deer collapsed.
There were 5 slug entries from the 410, and 1 exit. 3 of them the processor found lodged against the shoulder breaking only the skin, another caught by a rib. only 1 .410 shot penetrated through but it missed all vital organs. The .44mag coming out of a rifle on the other hand did some serious damage.
From now on the .410 is used only for squirrel. It is not fit for deer hunting IMO. A .410 will definitely ruin someones day, but it is under powered against a 200+LB 6 foot bad guy especially using buck shot. My home Defense shotgun is a 20ga pump. I throw in a Slug on the 2nd and 4th shots.
If you only have a .410 shotgun use it, but a 20ga is a better option for a home defense gun. Nothing beats a 12ga, however I do understand that a 12 is too much for many women and men to shoo.
Absolutely, Deer are tough critters and will keep on trying to live and get away with every ounce of survival instinct they have.
Humans are an entirely different ...animal (couldn't resist) in my opinion. So it really depends on whether you are arguing .410 use for self defense, or for hunting deer.
Two entirely different criteria, and likely different types of shells unless you are using slugs for self defense, so really the whole thing is apples and oranges.
Regardless, like you I would rather use 12ga in both circumstances.
You can use a .410 for deer? In Wisconsin Im 96% sure thats illegal. 20 ga or bigger and .223 or bigger for rifle. Like I said 96% sure lol
Originally Posted By: ChevyBadger
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
I wouldn't want to be shot with it, however I've seen a deer take 5 shots to the chest from .410 slugs over a period of 1/2 hour and get up and run.
Last year my dad took out his .410 pump to deer hunt as he had a stint put in a couple weeks before the season and didn't want to shoot his 12 guage with slugs. an 8 point buck walked up about 15 feet from him. he shot it in the chest. It ran and laid down in some weeds. After about 15 mins he was just sitting there about 20 yards away looking back and forth, hit but not dying very fast. he shot him again. repeat the process a few more times over the next 30 mins, as the deer just didn't seemed phased much.
My dad called me after the third shot to start walking that way, that he would need help soon to dress and drag it. When i arrived the deer jumped up and ran 40-50 yards and stopped right on a hill above the creek. I was carrying my .44 Mag handi-rifle with 225 Gr Hornady FTX. I pulled up quick and put a round right under the left shoulder, the round hit the lungs clipped the heart and came out directly through the shoulder on the other side breaking it. The deer collapsed.
There were 5 slug entries from the 410, and 1 exit. 3 of them the processor found lodged against the shoulder breaking only the skin, another caught by a rib. only 1 .410 shot penetrated through but it missed all vital organs. The .44mag coming out of a rifle on the other hand did some serious damage.
From now on the .410 is used only for squirrel. It is not fit for deer hunting IMO. A .410 will definitely ruin someones day, but it is under powered against a 200+LB 6 foot bad guy especially using buck shot. My home Defense shotgun is a 20ga pump. I throw in a Slug on the 2nd and 4th shots.
If you only have a .410 shotgun use it, but a 20ga is a better option for a home defense gun. Nothing beats a 12ga, however I do understand that a 12 is too much for many women and men to shoo.
Absolutely, Deer are tough critters and will keep on trying to live and get away with every ounce of survival instinct they have.
Humans are an entirely different ...animal (couldn't resist) in my opinion. So it really depends on whether you are arguing .410 use for self defense, or for hunting deer.
Two entirely different criteria, and likely different types of shells unless you are using slugs for self defense, so really the whole thing is apples and oranges.
Regardless, like you I would rather use 12ga in both circumstances.
You can use a .410 for deer? In Wisconsin Im 96% sure thats illegal. 20 ga or bigger and .223 or bigger for rifle. Like I said 96% sure lol
In Indiana, yes. We are a shotgun and select pistol caliber state. I believe the pistol cases have to be shorter than 1.8 inches. The .410 is legal in Indiana. It was allowed as an alternative to youth and beginning hunters. The problem is almost all .410 guns are smooth bore and shooting a rifled slug from an already weak Caliber down a smooth bore is less than optimal. A 1/4 oz .410 slug is about 109gr bullet moving about 1,700fps at the muzzle. Velocity drops off quick out of a smooth bore.
Basically it's like shooting a total lead 9mm +p+ From a carbine. My friends 9mm carbine Chronographs 9BPLE 9mm at ~1,700fps with a 16.5" barrel.
I use a .44 Mag from a rifle as it is as close to the performance of a 30-30 rifle that I can get without paying out serious money for the wildcat .358 Hoosier round
Unfortunately we cannot use "high powered rifles". Which at least for southern Indiana is silly because the terrain is hilly and similar to Kentucky. The central and northern parts are mostly flat. We tried to pass a bill last year to allow rifles .243 and larger to be used, however it failed to pass.
As far as .410 for intruders I think it would do the job out of a long gun, the key point I was trying to make is it is extremely under powered for a shotgun. You might as well buy a 9mm carbine and load it up with Gold Dot +p if you are recoil sensitive.
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
I wouldn't want to be shot with it, however I've seen a deer take 5 shots to the chest from .410 slugs over a period of 1/2 hour and get up and run.
Last year my dad took out his .410 pump to deer hunt as he had a stint put in a couple weeks before the season and didn't want to shoot his 12 guage with slugs. an 8 point buck walked up about 15 feet from him. he shot it in the chest. It ran and laid down in some weeds. After about 15 mins he was just sitting there about 20 yards away looking back and forth, hit but not dying very fast. he shot him again. repeat the process a few more times over the next 30 mins, as the deer just didn't seemed phased much.
My dad called me after the third shot to start walking that way, that he would need help soon to dress and drag it. When i arrived the deer jumped up and ran 40-50 yards and stopped right on a hill above the creek. I was carrying my .44 Mag handi-rifle with 225 Gr Hornady FTX. I pulled up quick and put a round right under the left shoulder, the round hit the lungs clipped the heart and came out directly through the shoulder on the other side breaking it. The deer collapsed.
There were 5 slug entries from the 410, and 1 exit. 3 of them the processor found lodged against the shoulder breaking only the skin, another caught by a rib. only 1 .410 shot penetrated through but it missed all vital organs. The .44mag coming out of a rifle on the other hand did some serious damage.
From now on the .410 is used only for squirrel. It is not fit for deer hunting IMO. A .410 will definitely ruin someones day, but it is under powered against a 200+LB 6 foot bad guy especially using buck shot. My home Defense shotgun is a 20ga pump. I throw in a Slug on the 2nd and 4th shots.
If you only have a .410 shotgun use it, but a 20ga is a better option for a home defense gun. Nothing beats a 12ga, however I do understand that a 12 is too much for many women and men to shoo.
Absolutely, Deer are tough critters and will keep on trying to live and get away with every ounce of survival instinct they have.
Humans are an entirely different ...animal (couldn't resist) in my opinion. So it really depends on whether you are arguing .410 use for self defense, or for hunting deer.
Two entirely different criteria, and likely different types of shells unless you are using slugs for self defense, so really the whole thing is apples and oranges.
Regardless, like you I would rather use 12ga in both circumstances.
You can use a .410 for deer? In Wisconsin Im 96% sure thats illegal. 20 ga or bigger and .223 or bigger for rifle. Like I said 96% sure lol
In Indiana, yes. We are a shotgun and select pistol caliber state. I believe the pistol cases have to be shorter than 1.8 inches. The .410 is legal in Indiana. It was allowed as an alternative to youth and beginning hunters. The problem is almost all .410 guns are smooth bore and shooting a rifled slug from an already weak Caliber down a smooth bore is less than optimal. A 1/4 oz .410 slug is about 109gr bullet moving about 1,700fps at the muzzle. Velocity drops off quick out of a smooth bore.
Basically it's like shooting a total lead 9mm +p+ From a carbine. My friends 9mm carbine Chronographs 9BPLE 9mm at ~1,700fps with a 16.5" barrel.
I use a .44 Mag from a rifle as it is as close to the performance of a 30-30 rifle that I can get without paying out serious money for the wildcat .358 Hoosier round
Unfortunately we cannot use "high powered rifles". Which at least for southern Indiana is silly because the terrain is hilly and similar to Kentucky. The central and northern parts are mostly flat. We tried to pass a bill last year to allow rifles .243 and larger to be used, however it failed to pass.
As far as .410 for intruders I think it would do the job out of a long gun, the key point I was trying to make is it is extremely under powered for a shotgun. You might as well buy a 9mm carbine and load it up with Gold Dot +p if you are recoil sensitive.
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Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Originally Posted By: ChevyBadger
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
I wouldn't want to be shot with it, however I've seen a deer take 5 shots to the chest from .410 slugs over a period of 1/2 hour and get up and run.
Last year my dad took out his .410 pump to deer hunt as he had a stint put in a couple weeks before the season and didn't want to shoot his 12 guage with slugs. an 8 point buck walked up about 15 feet from him. he shot it in the chest. It ran and laid down in some weeds. After about 15 mins he was just sitting there about 20 yards away looking back and forth, hit but not dying very fast. he shot him again. repeat the process a few more times over the next 30 mins, as the deer just didn't seemed phased much.
My dad called me after the third shot to start walking that way, that he would need help soon to dress and drag it. When i arrived the deer jumped up and ran 40-50 yards and stopped right on a hill above the creek. I was carrying my .44 Mag handi-rifle with 225 Gr Hornady FTX. I pulled up quick and put a round right under the left shoulder, the round hit the lungs clipped the heart and came out directly through the shoulder on the other side breaking it. The deer collapsed.
There were 5 slug entries from the 410, and 1 exit. 3 of them the processor found lodged against the shoulder breaking only the skin, another caught by a rib. only 1 .410 shot penetrated through but it missed all vital organs. The .44mag coming out of a rifle on the other hand did some serious damage.
From now on the .410 is used only for squirrel. It is not fit for deer hunting IMO. A .410 will definitely ruin someones day, but it is under powered against a 200+LB 6 foot bad guy especially using buck shot. My home Defense shotgun is a 20ga pump. I throw in a Slug on the 2nd and 4th shots.
If you only have a .410 shotgun use it, but a 20ga is a better option for a home defense gun. Nothing beats a 12ga, however I do understand that a 12 is too much for many women and men to shoo.
Absolutely, Deer are tough critters and will keep on trying to live and get away with every ounce of survival instinct they have.
Humans are an entirely different ...animal (couldn't resist) in my opinion. So it really depends on whether you are arguing .410 use for self defense, or for hunting deer.
Two entirely different criteria, and likely different types of shells unless you are using slugs for self defense, so really the whole thing is apples and oranges.
Regardless, like you I would rather use 12ga in both circumstances.
You can use a .410 for deer? In Wisconsin Im 96% sure thats illegal. 20 ga or bigger and .223 or bigger for rifle. Like I said 96% sure lol
In Indiana, yes. We are a shotgun and select pistol caliber state. I believe the pistol cases have to be shorter than 1.8 inches. The .410 is legal in Indiana. It was allowed as an alternative to youth and beginning hunters. The problem is almost all .410 guns are smooth bore and shooting a rifled slug from an already weak Caliber down a smooth bore is less than optimal. A 1/4 oz .410 slug is about 109gr bullet moving about 1,700fps at the muzzle. Velocity drops off quick out of a smooth bore.
Basically it's like shooting a total lead 9mm +p+ From a carbine. My friends 9mm carbine Chronographs 9BPLE 9mm at ~1,700fps with a 16.5" barrel.
I use a .44 Mag from a rifle as it is as close to the performance of a 30-30 rifle that I can get without paying out serious money for the wildcat .358 Hoosier round
Unfortunately we cannot use "high powered rifles". Which at least for southern Indiana is silly because the terrain is hilly and similar to Kentucky. The central and northern parts are mostly flat. We tried to pass a bill last year to allow rifles .243 and larger to be used, however it failed to pass.
As far as .410 for intruders I think it would do the job out of a long gun, the key point I was trying to make is it is extremely under powered for a shotgun. You might as well buy a 9mm carbine and load it up with Gold Dot +p if you are recoil sensitive.
Here in southern Wisconsin it always used to be shotgun only, CWD came along and brought the rifles with it. Weve been using rifles ever since. I couldnt imagine trying to use a .410 for deer. Smallest gun I ever used was my first year deer hunting. Single shot 20 gauge. Seemed to always see deer just out of range with shotgun, now I dont see many deer at all.
Originally Posted By: ChevyBadger
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
I wouldn't want to be shot with it, however I've seen a deer take 5 shots to the chest from .410 slugs over a period of 1/2 hour and get up and run.
Last year my dad took out his .410 pump to deer hunt as he had a stint put in a couple weeks before the season and didn't want to shoot his 12 guage with slugs. an 8 point buck walked up about 15 feet from him. he shot it in the chest. It ran and laid down in some weeds. After about 15 mins he was just sitting there about 20 yards away looking back and forth, hit but not dying very fast. he shot him again. repeat the process a few more times over the next 30 mins, as the deer just didn't seemed phased much.
My dad called me after the third shot to start walking that way, that he would need help soon to dress and drag it. When i arrived the deer jumped up and ran 40-50 yards and stopped right on a hill above the creek. I was carrying my .44 Mag handi-rifle with 225 Gr Hornady FTX. I pulled up quick and put a round right under the left shoulder, the round hit the lungs clipped the heart and came out directly through the shoulder on the other side breaking it. The deer collapsed.
There were 5 slug entries from the 410, and 1 exit. 3 of them the processor found lodged against the shoulder breaking only the skin, another caught by a rib. only 1 .410 shot penetrated through but it missed all vital organs. The .44mag coming out of a rifle on the other hand did some serious damage.
From now on the .410 is used only for squirrel. It is not fit for deer hunting IMO. A .410 will definitely ruin someones day, but it is under powered against a 200+LB 6 foot bad guy especially using buck shot. My home Defense shotgun is a 20ga pump. I throw in a Slug on the 2nd and 4th shots.
If you only have a .410 shotgun use it, but a 20ga is a better option for a home defense gun. Nothing beats a 12ga, however I do understand that a 12 is too much for many women and men to shoo.
Absolutely, Deer are tough critters and will keep on trying to live and get away with every ounce of survival instinct they have.
Humans are an entirely different ...animal (couldn't resist) in my opinion. So it really depends on whether you are arguing .410 use for self defense, or for hunting deer.
Two entirely different criteria, and likely different types of shells unless you are using slugs for self defense, so really the whole thing is apples and oranges.
Regardless, like you I would rather use 12ga in both circumstances.
You can use a .410 for deer? In Wisconsin Im 96% sure thats illegal. 20 ga or bigger and .223 or bigger for rifle. Like I said 96% sure lol
In Indiana, yes. We are a shotgun and select pistol caliber state. I believe the pistol cases have to be shorter than 1.8 inches. The .410 is legal in Indiana. It was allowed as an alternative to youth and beginning hunters. The problem is almost all .410 guns are smooth bore and shooting a rifled slug from an already weak Caliber down a smooth bore is less than optimal. A 1/4 oz .410 slug is about 109gr bullet moving about 1,700fps at the muzzle. Velocity drops off quick out of a smooth bore.
Basically it's like shooting a total lead 9mm +p+ From a carbine. My friends 9mm carbine Chronographs 9BPLE 9mm at ~1,700fps with a 16.5" barrel.
I use a .44 Mag from a rifle as it is as close to the performance of a 30-30 rifle that I can get without paying out serious money for the wildcat .358 Hoosier round
Unfortunately we cannot use "high powered rifles". Which at least for southern Indiana is silly because the terrain is hilly and similar to Kentucky. The central and northern parts are mostly flat. We tried to pass a bill last year to allow rifles .243 and larger to be used, however it failed to pass.
As far as .410 for intruders I think it would do the job out of a long gun, the key point I was trying to make is it is extremely under powered for a shotgun. You might as well buy a 9mm carbine and load it up with Gold Dot +p if you are recoil sensitive.
Here in southern Wisconsin it always used to be shotgun only, CWD came along and brought the rifles with it. Weve been using rifles ever since. I couldnt imagine trying to use a .410 for deer. Smallest gun I ever used was my first year deer hunting. Single shot 20 gauge. Seemed to always see deer just out of range with shotgun, now I dont see many deer at all.
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Here is the deal. And I'm being honest here, and I'm going to use myself as an example. Because I have both this gun along with these loads. Anyone like myself who is going to be impressed enough with the Bond Arms .410 / .45 Colt Derringer enough to purchase one, is already going to have several other guns far more capable for self defense. No one in their right mind, and who doesn't own a handgun, is going to purchase one of these as their one and only weapon for self defense....... Unless they're ignorant, or else just plain nuts.
These guns are big boys toys, pure and simple. Good looking little pistols? Yes. Well made? Very much so. Beautifully finished? You bet. But high priced toys none the less, meant to play with at the range. It's strictly a "hold my beer" gun. Not meant to grab when you hear bump in the middle of the night. For serious social work there are literally dozens of better self defense weapons out there to choose from. So it comes down to this. Will this thing take out a bad guy? Sure. But why would you choose it? In the most simple of terms, you wouldn't.
These guns are large and heavy for Derringers. In spite of that, they are not easy guns to hold on to. Especially if you have large hands. The trigger pull was designed by a lawyer, and is ridiculously heavy. Even heavier if you don't pull it a certain way. (See Video at 1:15 about the trigger). It's also a single action that only holds 2 shots, and is very clumsy to eject the cases and reload. And the sights are just about non existent. It's got the worst of everything going for it, as far as what a self defense weapon should have.
If you want a small, capable, self defense weapon, get yourself a Glock 26 and stuff it full of Gold Dots. Then you at least have a chance. Leave the pretty toys for the range to play with. You'll live longer.
These guns are big boys toys, pure and simple. Good looking little pistols? Yes. Well made? Very much so. Beautifully finished? You bet. But high priced toys none the less, meant to play with at the range. It's strictly a "hold my beer" gun. Not meant to grab when you hear bump in the middle of the night. For serious social work there are literally dozens of better self defense weapons out there to choose from. So it comes down to this. Will this thing take out a bad guy? Sure. But why would you choose it? In the most simple of terms, you wouldn't.
These guns are large and heavy for Derringers. In spite of that, they are not easy guns to hold on to. Especially if you have large hands. The trigger pull was designed by a lawyer, and is ridiculously heavy. Even heavier if you don't pull it a certain way. (See Video at 1:15 about the trigger). It's also a single action that only holds 2 shots, and is very clumsy to eject the cases and reload. And the sights are just about non existent. It's got the worst of everything going for it, as far as what a self defense weapon should have.
If you want a small, capable, self defense weapon, get yourself a Glock 26 and stuff it full of Gold Dots. Then you at least have a chance. Leave the pretty toys for the range to play with. You'll live longer.
When you all get a chance, go to YouTube and look at some of the home invasion reenactments and some of the live home invasions, could be a wake up call for many of us...
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Seriously, a .410 is for girls. Great for snakes, not for people. Get someone mad, full of rage attacking. I want something bigger than a .410.
If you see a guy shooting trap/skeet well with a .410, you know he's a master. Most people use a 12ga, but the pros will use a 20ga or even a .410.
It's all about horses for courses...
The guy using a .410 for trap/skeet is doing so to intentionally handicap himself. Something no one would do in a gunfight except in the movies. When dealing with HD shotguns there is no reason at all to pick a .410 over a 20 or 12. The only reason .410 get kicked around is because of gimmick guns that use it.
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Seriously, a .410 is for girls. Great for snakes, not for people. Get someone mad, full of rage attacking. I want something bigger than a .410.
If you see a guy shooting trap/skeet well with a .410, you know he's a master. Most people use a 12ga, but the pros will use a 20ga or even a .410.
It's all about horses for courses...
The guy using a .410 for trap/skeet is doing so to intentionally handicap himself. Something no one would do in a gunfight except in the movies. When dealing with HD shotguns there is no reason at all to pick a .410 over a 20 or 12. The only reason .410 get kicked around is because of gimmick guns that use it.
Originally Posted By: volk06
This is what we use in a pump action. Have to keep in mind some people can't handle a 12 gauge or 20 gauge due to previous shoulder injuries.
Off topic, but didn't the late Robert Stack do some very magnificent shooting with a light shotgun, thanks to previous injuries? If I recall correctly, he had a bunch of trap or skeet records. I didn't check too deeply just now, and it looks like someone "sanitized" his Wikipedia entry.
This is what we use in a pump action. Have to keep in mind some people can't handle a 12 gauge or 20 gauge due to previous shoulder injuries.
Off topic, but didn't the late Robert Stack do some very magnificent shooting with a light shotgun, thanks to previous injuries? If I recall correctly, he had a bunch of trap or skeet records. I didn't check too deeply just now, and it looks like someone "sanitized" his Wikipedia entry.
.410 slugs are effective close range fodder , If they are not , then .45 LC and .45 acp are not either ..
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