Proof Chevy V8's beat blown 4-cylinders - Focus RS

[lubricatosaurus]

Maybe this just means pushrod V-8's make sense.
How can the Focus RS be lighter and less powerful, yet get worse MPG?

To be fair,
About +1 MPG is due to the 2016 Camaro's 8-speed automatic vs. 6 ratios on the Focus.
About +1 MPG is due to the 2016 Camaro's cylinder deactivation.
About +1 MPG is due to the 2016 Camaro's 2wd vs. AWD on the Focus.

2016 Focus RS, 350 hp, 0-60=4.6sec, 3400 lbs, $37k, 17city/23hiway, CD=.355
2016 Camaro SS, 455 hp, 0-60=3.9sec, 3800 lbs, $37k, 17city/28hiway, CD=.350(for the 5th generation model)
A Focus less blown (smaller turbo, less displacement, slow):
2016 Focus ST, 252 hp, 0-60=6.3sec, 3250 lbs, $30k, 23/32, CD=.300

 

[CT8]

The push rod doesn't have anything to do with it. I prefer pushrod engines.

 

[Quattro Pete]

You should probably compare real life mpg, and not figures on paper.

But in any case, niether one of these cars is purchased for their fuel economy prowess, so who cares?

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
You should probably compare real life mpg, and not figures on paper.

Well, turbo's tend to return worse figures off the EPA FTP city/highway runs, so there goes your argument. This is an exploration of engineering, some care about that.

 

[turtlevette]

A focus is the same price as a 6.2 camaro?

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
A focus is the same price as a 6.2 camaro?

Focus RS is $37k just like a Camaro SS. The Focus RS is incredibly fun to drive and equipped well there at least. The real value bargain is the Camaro 335 hp V6 model for $26k.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Its not like ford had a choice. Would a v8 fit under the hood of a focus? And even if it did, what would it do to its weight distribution and handling?

 

[cpayne5]

Who cares. Buy and drive what you like and don't criticize your neighbor when they do the same.

Lots of great cars out there these days.

 

[bdcardinal]

My Mustang gets 14.4mpg combined.

I bet the AWD on the Focus RS contributes to the MPG drop.

 

[IndyIan]

Alot of the mpg difference could be just the tall top gear ratio in the Camaro, which can help far more than 3% as I imagine 6th in the RS is geared for topspeed not mileage. Also AWD seems to be a 10-15% hit to mileage.

It would be an interesting design exercise to chop an LS V8 in half both ways and see what could be done with it in small cars.
Either as an inline 4 for fwd, or a V4 for rwd.
Something like a rwd Cruze with a torqey 220 N/A hp and 35mpg would be a perfect car for me anyways.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
My Mustang gets 14.4mpg combined. I bet the AWD on the Focus RS contributes to the MPG drop.
AWD, using the twin-clutch electronic differential setup, does appear to drag some, probably takes off -1 MPG or two.
Your hot Mustang, tuned for the track, might be the real answer here, on reflection. The Focus RS is track tuned as well, meaning richer mixtures likely. Track tuning to blame?

 

[javacontour]

In a rough sense, wasn't that the 2.5L Iron Duke I4 GM had for years? Wasn't it half of one of the GM 5L engines, 301, 305?


Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Alot of the mpg difference could be just the tall top gear ratio in the Camaro, which can help far more than 3% as I imagine 6th in the RS is geared for topspeed not mileage. Also AWD seems to be a 10-15% hit to mileage.

It would be an interesting design exercise to chop an LS V8 in half both ways and see what could be done with it in small cars.
Either as an inline 4 for fwd, or a V4 for rwd.
Something like a rwd Cruze with a torqey 220 N/A hp and 35mpg would be a perfect car for me anyways.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Alot of the mpg difference could be just the tall top gear ratio in the Camaro, which can help far more than 3% as I imagine 6th in the RS is geared for topspeed not mileage. Also AWD seems to be a 10-15% hit to mileage.

It would be an interesting design exercise to chop an LS V8 in half both ways and see what could be done with it in small cars.
Either as an inline 4 for fwd, or a V4 for rwd.
Something like a rwd Cruze with a torqey 220 N/A hp and 35mpg would be a perfect car for me anyways.


It all adds up, doesn't it? Your design exercise: Why not just create a scaled-down Chevy V8 block, I mean every part smaller by 20%, and use a pushrod V8 (old school) with cyl deact, direct injection, ending up with 4.0L displacement, simple cylinder heads like the big brother, etc.

I can't remember how vibration is on a V-4, but the I-4 half-V8, using many of the same parts as the big cousin V8 (same pistons, heads, etc.) sounds great. Of course keep DI, yet cylinder deactivation won't work anymore with so few cylinders (NVH). An I-4 with half the horsepower would still be 455/2=227 hp, plenty for a hot Focus ST anyway. No turbo, too!

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Rich tune under boost on turbos, AWD + higher rpm cruise.

I just read the EVO is dead so here are the two top contenders now for boy racer cars.

 

[jeepman3071]

In the snow belt, AWD > rear wheel drive.

 

[badtlc]

and the Focus would destroy the V8 on a track. They aren't really comparable vehicles.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
In a rough sense, wasn't that the 2.5L Iron Duke I4 GM had for years? Wasn't it half of one of the GM 5L engines, 301, 305?

Thanks, I hadn't remembered that. I drove one around in the early 80's a lotv, very torquey in a Citation. You're right, it was 151 cubic inches, about half a Pontiac 301 V8. Resurrect the Iron Duke? Modernized with DI, new materials, all-aluminum, higher compression, ....

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
and the Focus would destroy the V8 on a track.

Plus the Focus is a lot more practical on all those days when you are not at the track.

Quote:
They aren't really comparable vehicles.

Agreed.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
and the Focus would destroy the V8 on a track. They aren't really comparable vehicles.
The more curves, the more advantage goes to the Focus RS. Camaro with the new ATS chassis would get very close, and some tracks have long straightaways.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Resurrect the Iron Duke? Modernized with DI, new materials, all-aluminum, higher compression, ....

Ford also has the 2.7 V6 twin-turbo available that makes 325 hp / 350 lb-ft. Not sure what the MPG figures are on this one. And still probably too heavy for a Focus.