Should I switch back to paper from K&N?

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Wow! That was pretty extreme. My sister lives in Arizona and they get some pretty scary dust storms every year. Your pics remind me of that. Nothing like that here, thank goodness. Are either still running oiled gauze?


Nissan has a Proguard 7...need to fit a restriction gauge, as a wastegated turbodiesel isn't going to tell me the pluggage...standard Nissan item is $45-$50...

BMW is gone, Caprice is my current get to work car, and it's a paper panel type filter, with a spray of K and N oil.

edit - link to some google images of the period.

 

[wemay]

That's insane! I would never have imagined it could be so bad. Not your choice of filters but the red dust.

Incidently, why spray the paper filter with K&N oil? Does this not alter the filters efficiency? I ask because I still have some of that spray left over myself...

 

[Shannow]

wemay,
historically, many of the "paper" filters I bought were literally dripping with oil as they came out of the bag. (Ryco A24 back in the day as an example).

Some time ago, one of the heavy hitters of the day on BITOG showed some of his testing with a very very light mist, and it looked good...and I had some oil, and do it...not recommending, just staating what I did/do (I refill single use propane torch bottles, but won't advocate nor recommend either).

As to the K and N versus paper, here's anotehr one from the archives. Terry is an extremeley knowledgable oil analysis guru, who has read more UOAs than I've had breakfasts, and George CLS is a certified lube guy...they both make good points
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=489926

(found while trying to find the oiled paper threads, which I promise to get to).

 

[wemay]

Got it.

Re that thread, excellent discussion and both gentlemen make excellent points. Terry's opinion is more so along the lines of where i stand on the topic:

Terry- "In years of analyzing oil for automobile engines I have found very little problems with a properly serviced K&N air filter.

At one time I was down on them , much like GeorgeCLS's observation. After taking a closer look we found installation and servicing the problem not the filter media or seal.Like ANY media if it is damaged air and trash will channel to the tear or hole. Grommets or gaskets are also a very common leak area.

Because of the high cost associated with Identifing the exact type silicon the old idea that it is always dirt is incorrect. Silicon can come from alot of sources; air leaks in PCV,air filter,intake manifold,oil fill ports,breathers, RTV,gasket materials,contaminated oil,Additives,leaching from new alloyed light weight pistons,low friction bearings,etc.

Baseline and correlation of baseline wear metals (looking at the whole result) is imperative for an accurate read."

 

[JustinH]

Once a year I replace filters in every car. Never had a problem.

Used a K&N filter on a 95 thunderbird, the oil sprayed all over the MAF sensor and messed it up. I took it apart and cleaned it then went to a paper filter.

Never a problem since.

Every car I have ever owned takes a ten dollar air filter. You aren't saving any money.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: JustinH
Once a year I replace filters in every car. Never had a problem.

Used a K&N filter on a 95 thunderbird, the oil sprayed all over the MAF sensor and messed it up. I took it apart and cleaned it then went to a paper filter.

Never a problem since.

Every car I have ever owned takes a ten dollar air filter. You aren't saving any money.


Funny you mentioned price. I went back on to Amazon and found both K&N for my vehicles for under $40 ea. Makes fiscal sense now. Bought them both.

 

[circuitsmith]

After 4 years and 30,000 miles the restriction gauge I installed has barely changed.
Changing the $15 OEM filter every year would be way overkill for me.
With the $17 gauge I'll stick with a filter I know is efficient and use it to its full potential.

 

[Virtuoso]

Just bought a highly used Montana that came equipped with a K&N panel of unknown mileage.

A fair amount of [censored] (dirt/tiny rocks) on the clean side of the air box. I'm willing to bet that the filter's (now flimsy) rubber seal was to blame for the passage and not the media. The filter was well covered with [censored] and not see-through at all.

I've also driven many, many miles on engines using K&N's with no issue, but do not use them anymore. Paper filter's can go way longer than I used to think, and I don't have to worry about filtering efficiency, or taking time to clean them.

 

[Vikas]

Is installing the restriction gauge means mutilating OEM intake?

 

[HTSS_TR]

You need to drill a hole somewhere from air box to engine. This is the reason I don't add the restriction gauge to my cars.

 

[wemay]

Put them in (K&N) about two weeks ago and I sill still defend them for reasons i've stated but...

In the last two weeks i have come to the conclusion that the extra sound levels are not pleasing. Especially in the 2.4. The filter just amplifies the harshness of the engine note when at 1/2 throttle and above. Nope, not pleasing at all. As for the Turbo? My wife just does not like the louder whooooosh either, so....both have been replaced with paper filters.

 

[loneryder]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
Documented proof?

I doubt it.

All I needed to see was dirt in my throttle body and sparklies when looking through the filter to have me switch back to paper.

Amazing how power and MPG did not take an immediate hit when I switched back either.



What a ridiculous scare tactic. Lol


That filter looks dry and they don't work at all with no oil. I think a lot of them are over oiled.

 

[Silk]

Over oiled and too much cleaning. Not suitable for the typical OCD Aamerican.

 

[AITG]

As an operator of a fleet of diesel trucks I became acquainted with several people from Donaldson (air filter mfr for heavy trucks). To a man, all of them maintained that filter replacement should be on intake restriction. Opening up the can "to look at the filter" really doesn't tell you anything but it DOES offer the opportunity for dirt to pass from the dirty side to the clean side.

Following that logic, I replace filters based on restriction only and I avoid any filter that needs periodic servicing. The one caution to restriction services: you still need to inspect your intake periodically. If you have a loose joint or wear a hole in the clean side plumbing you reduce restriction by admitting unfiltered air to the clean side of the system.

 

[DudeNiceRide]

K&N air filters were design for the street track and/or strip where they wanted to move a ton of air in short spurts in clean conditions.

Air filters are compared with "initial efficiency" (eff at 1st pass) and "final efficiency" (to some predetermined point usually a restriction pressure). Efficiency gets better as the filter accumulates dirt/debris.

K&N filters have a bad/low initial efficiency. This gives them great flow, great capacity (takes longer to fill up the filter), but also lets a ton of dirt into your intake.

The dudes running these on the 4x4s and ATVs will tell you all about the dust they find on the CLEAN SIDE of a K&N cotton-gauze filter.

Great for the road-race or drag strip. Not so great for daily drivers in real-world conditions.

 

[anndel]

I would, immediately. Last year when I did my timing chain on our 1993 Toyota 4x4 Hilux p/u, I took off the intake and got a chance to inspect the throttle body. It was dirty so I cleaned it with TB cleaner. The K&N let fine dust through so I dumped it and put on the OEM air cleaner box and a Toyota air filter.

 

[Torrid]

Originally Posted By: qdeezie
I recently went back to paper filters from K&N and it seems like my Focus likes the paper more. Note: I also cleaned the MAF. It revs smoother, accelerates better and gets better gas mileage. The K&N was supposed to do that, but the paper got me better results. I'm thinking the K&N and the MAF didn't exactly see eye to eye.

As for documented proof, I have exactly zero. Just my experience.


That was my experience in my Jaguar. It even shifted rough with the K&N. All is well after a MAF clean and a paper STP filter.

I will say I do miss the extra intake noise. Now it sounds like a proper Jaguar where I only really hear the exhaust. It had an almost Aston V8 Vantage like intake snarl under heavy throttle.

 

[ARB1977]

I have a AFE Pro Dry filter in my Tacoma. Got 80K on the filter. Took the throttle body off and it wasn't bad as far as dirt is concerned.

 

[StorminNorvin]

I am getting ready to rip out a K&N Cold Air Intake system out of a 2003 S10 4.3L V6. It isn't even "cold air" as the air filter sits open in the engine compartment. It does have a splash guard protecting it. I didn't install it. It came with the truck and luckily I have the original air box and stuff. This is it:

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=57-3017-2

I am looking forward to putting the factory air system back on and actually getting cold air from the fender air inlet.

The savings argument used makes me chuckle. Not assuming the even more expensive cold air intake kit, but say you get a K&N air filter, cleaner, and oil. I think it is fair to say:

$40 - K&N Air Filter
$13 - Cleaner
$10 - Oil
---
$63 - Total

I just ordered some Mann MA1002 paper air filters from Rock Auto at $6.91 each with some other parts to save on shipping. I'll say $8/each to cover shipping:

https://youtu.be/cWZ9uEzNhCw

So 63/8 = 7.875 so 7 air filter changes I can do with really good paper air filters.

Oh heck! Even the kit at $285 with the cleaner and oil so 308/8 = 38.5 so 38 air filter changes.

And what about the foam and rubber seals on the air filters? You get a fresh foam/rubber seal every time when replacing with a new paper air filter. I can see on the installed cold air kit that the air filter rubber is starting to dry out where it slips onto the intake pipe and is held with a clamp. It would eventually need to be replaced. Bad seals make any air filter worthless. Another $40 for an air filter? No thanks.

 

[oliveoil]

198k miles on a cone K&N. Have cleaned it 3 times. I'm not sure I'd use a panel K&N because the cone has much tighter in pleat-spacing. I'm happy with K&N.