Are you ready if the power grid gets hacked?

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Originally Posted By: rsylvstr
Looking at a standby genset for the whole house. Problem is it would be hooked to NG. Might need to rethink and consider propane.


If you have oil heat, consider diesel...they will happily run off your furnace tank.

Alternately, a portable that you can plug in is worth considering, as well as MUCH less money.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I've got a little 700W 4 stroke to run the electrics on the (gas) hot water system and space heater....would have come in real handy to couple of times we've been out for 12-14 hours after snow.

But in the event that the grid goes down, the gas will be gone too not long after.

You better do a cost analysis based on the amount of propane you will need. If the grid is down for weeks+. We are all toast anyway...unless you live in a fort. And then even then...

In a non cataclysmic event its extremely unlikely for the grid to go down for very long. And even then the whole thing won't be down for long.

If you consider propane to run a generator bear in mind that you would be much better off using it to heat directly.
 
NG in the house now. No way to light boiler manually. Have a predator 4000 I have used several times. No heat or hot water though. Buderus boiler with ergo max water heater and hot water baseboard.
 
I remember as a child having an ice storm living in rural Missouri. Power was out for a week. That was a longggggg week and we got much more prepared after that.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
You better do a cost analysis based on the amount of propane you will need. If the grid is down for weeks+. We are all toast anyway...unless you live in a fort. And then even then...

In a non cataclysmic event its extremely unlikely for the grid to go down for very long. And even then the whole thing won't be down for long.

If you consider propane to run a generator bear in mind that you would be much better off using it to heat directly.


As I said in first post, it's there to power the blowers/electrics on the NG heater and hot water service, in the couple of snow instances that take the town out for 12 hours.

It's not disaster preparedness, just more comfortable than boiling pots of water on the stove and having a sponge bath before work.

If I had to do an ROI on heating my home even without a blackout, the math would clearly say stay cold...same here with a $200 petrol gen.
 
Quote:
As I said in first post, it's there to power the blowers/electrics on the NG heater and hot water service, in the couple of snow instances that take the town out for 12 hours.

It's not disaster preparedness, just more comfortable than boiling pots of water on the stove and having a sponge bath before work.

If I had to do an ROI on heating my home even without a blackout, the math would clearly say stay cold...same here with a $200 petrol gen.

LOL..Ignore my post I wasn't connecting your namej with post. I know you can do the math.
wink.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: turtlevette

You militia type people bother me. It'll be one of you wanting to do something like this to fulfill some alternate version of the country where you're on top because of your guns. Obviously you're already thinking about which rounds can penetrate a transformer tank.


This scenario already happened in California. That is why I posted it.



"The attack began just before 1 a.m. on April 16 last year, when someone slipped into an underground vault not far from a busy freeway and cut telephone cables.

"Within half an hour, snipers opened fire on a nearby electrical substation. Shooting for 19 minutes, they surgically knocked out 17 giant transformers that funnel power to Silicon Valley. A minute before a police car arrived, the shooters disappeared into the night.

"To avoid a blackout, electric-grid officials rerouted power around the site and asked power plants in Silicon Valley to produce more electricity. But it took utility workers 27 days to make repairs and bring the substation back to life."
 
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Originally Posted By: turtlevette

You militia type people bother me. It'll be one of you wanting to do something like this to fulfill some alternate version of the country where you're on top because of your guns. Obviously you're already thinking about which rounds can penetrate a transformer tank.


You seem to be overly afraid of firearms. Have you consulted a mental health professional about the possibility you have hoplophobia?
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: turtlevette

You militia type people bother me. It'll be one of you wanting to do something like this to fulfill some alternate version of the country where you're on top because of your guns. Obviously you're already thinking about which rounds can penetrate a transformer tank.


You seem to be overly afraid of firearms. Have you consulted a mental health professional about the possibility you have hoplophobia?


It's the pretend tin soldiers that own the guns. Machismo braggerts and such. You know, check out the firearms section of any carforum.
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
You seem to be overly afraid of firearms. Have you consulted a mental health professional about the possibility you have hoplophobia?


Originally Posted By: Doog
"The attack began just before 1 a.m. on April 16 last year, when someone slipped into an underground vault not far from a busy freeway and cut telephone cables.

"Within half an hour, snipers opened fire on a nearby electrical substation. Shooting for 19 minutes, they surgically knocked out 17 giant transformers that funnel power to Silicon Valley. A minute before a police car arrived, the shooters disappeared into the night.

"To avoid a blackout, electric-grid officials rerouted power around the site and asked power plants in Silicon Valley to produce more electricity. But it took utility workers 27 days to make repairs and bring the substation back to life."


I'm taking it that the bold is yours for emphasis added.

You seem to have an addiction to being scared by people using emotive language to feed it...

"surgically knocked out 17 giant transformers"
"a minute before police...disappeared into the night"
"avoid blackout, electric grid officials rerouted power"
"and asked other power stations to produce more power"
"took 27 days to bring back to life"

sensationalist garbage.

Would you be so worried if you got the daily updates from the market regulator ?

They go like this (I get them)

Quote:
Unidentified persons with inside knowledge disabled security systems, and undertook targeted vandalism of a switchyard.

As the high voltage equipment was damaged, the automatic protection systems (of the kind that turtlevette designs, I might add) tripped the transformers preventing short circuiting and consequential damage to the equipment.

The grid control systems automatically diverted power around the failed switchyard, and the governors on the turbines around the district automatically picked up load to maintain the system frequency. (As an aside, the guys and gals operating those units noted a blip in frequency, and that the GFC required an increase in output)

The substation outage was easily managed by the built in redundancy in the Grid for 27 days, while spares were resourced from central locations, and other companies with similar equipment. The substation underwent a week of high voltage testing and trip checks before being returned to service.


Doesn't give you the sweaty palms that you need for a fix, does it ?
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette


You seem to be overly afraid of firearms. Have you consulted a mental health professional about the possibility you have hoplophobia?


It's the pretend tin soldiers that own the guns. Machismo braggerts and such. You know, check out the firearms section of any carforum.

[/quote]

I would wager about 4% of those kind of idiots own firearms. You are mistaking keyboard commandos for real commandos. HUGE difference.
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow

Doesn't give you the sweaty palms that you need for a fix, does it ?


Obviously you people down under are experts on the subject of sweaty palms.
crackmeup2.gif


But you folks are not subjected to the same level of idiots running your country that we have here. You aren't infected with the PC disease 100% yet. You actually have immigration laws you enforce.

Don't forget a few journalists wrote articles about the WTC bombing in 1993...they were laughed at as well.

Like who on earth could knock down those huge towers....terrorists don't have the weapons necessary.

Terrorists have one dangerous weapon....imagination.

Here in the US we have 500,000 people who have overstayed their visa.....we have no idea where they are at. We have another 12,000,000 illegals who live undocumented in the shadows.

You don't have that issue. So, it is not surprising you are unable to even imagine the possibilities.
 
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Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: Shannow

Doesn't give you the sweaty palms that you need for a fix, does it ?


Obviously you people down under are experts on the subject of sweaty
But you folks are not subjected to the same level of idiots running your country that palms.
crackmeup2.gif

we have here. You aren't infected with the PC disease 100% yet. You actually have immigration laws you enforce.

Don't forget a few journalists wrote articles about the WTC bombing in 1993...they were laughed at as well.

Like who on earth could knock down those huge towers....terrorists don't have the weapons necessary.

Terrorists have one dangerous weapon....imagination.

Here in the US we have 500,000 people who have overstayed their visa.....we have no idea where they are at. We have another 12,000,000 illegals who live undocumented in the shadows.

You don't have that issue. So, it is not surprising you are unable to even imagine the possibilities.

Jeez, 12.5 million bad guys! I'm surprised you risk posting on a public internet forum at all. One of them must of read your posts here, and be worried that increased public awareness will foil one their sinister plots to kill all the "real" americans. You must be a target now!

I wouldn't even go outside if I was you! And you should get an Xray machine for your mail and food deliveries, just in case they try to get you that way.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow

The substation outage was easily managed by the built in redundancy in the Grid for 27 days, while spares were resourced from central locations, and other companies with similar equipment. The substation underwent a week of high voltage testing and trip checks before being returned to service.


Doesn't give you the sweaty palms that you need for a fix, does it ? [/quote]
Pretty much Shannow....I agree. You can lookk at any number of sources and if you go to the tinfoil jhat ones like:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/...-for-10-months/

Its all dome and gloom and conspiracy.
Other balanced sources:


http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/16/technology/sniper-power-grid/
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304851104579359141941621778

BTW the attack occurred in 2013..not in 2015. Did the Terrorists lose interests?? It is felt my many that it was an "inside job"

I loathe illegals in this country. And I fear there are bad things coming...but...we are better off than 95% of the worlds people and there are are a lot of us in this country that will work to fix whatever freaks or is destroyed in this country.

If ultimately we need every major electrical junction guarded by the State's Military Reserve..so be it.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan


Jeez, 12.5 million bad guys! I'm surprised you risk posting on a public internet forum at all. One of them must of read your posts here, and be worried that increased public awareness will foil one their sinister plots to kill all the "real" americans. You must be a target now!

I wouldn't even go outside if I was you! And you should get an Xray machine for your mail and food deliveries, just in case they try to get you that way.


You Canadians have a bigger problem. You have 51 documented terror organizations operating in your country. You'll figure it out when you have the same Muslim problem they have in France and the UK. keep laughing.....you must hate your kids.

http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/2014-pblc-rpr-trrrst-thrt/index-eng.aspx
 
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Originally Posted By: Al


BTW the attack occurred in 2013..not in 2015. Did the Terrorists lose interests?? It is felt my many that it was an "inside job"


Ok 2013? Did they lose interest or are they as patient as AL-Qaida as in bombing the WTC in 1993 then again in 2001. Many people felt they "lost interest" in the WTC. Big mistake.

Inside job? Easily any utility company could be infiltrated by an inside employee who is a willing participant.

The point is this: The attack combined with a series of multiple attacks at key locations across the country could prove very damaging with a limited amount of people involved.

The power grid is set up into 3 grids East/West and Texas.
The East and West do not share power across the grid. So multiple attacks to both E&W at the same time in high demand months (July-August) could prove to shut down or cripple major portions of both.

The second but most important point is: The attack was highly planned, very specific and successful.

No suspects have been identified or arrested.
 
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Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: IndyIan


Jeez, 12.5 million bad guys! I'm surprised you risk posting on a public internet forum at all. One of them must of read your posts here, and be worried that increased public awareness will foil one their sinister plots to kill all the "real" americans. You must be a target now!

I wouldn't even go outside if I was you! And you should get an Xray machine for your mail and food deliveries, just in case they try to get you that way.


You Canadians have a bigger problem. You have 51 documented terror organizations operating in your country. You'll figure it out when you have the same Muslim problem they have in France and the UK. keep laughing.....you must hate your kids.

http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/2014-pblc-rpr-trrrst-thrt/index-eng.aspx

Like you, I'm more likely to fall down in my tub, or get hit by a drunk, or get hit by lightning, or fall off my skidoo, or break my neck playing hockey, or roll my tractor, or fall a tree on myself, or just die from the flu, than have a terrorist affect my life in the slightest manner(other than flying being a PITA)...
Also that report was from our last fear mongering conservative government, so I'd think its a bit overblown.
I do happen to be semi-prepared for a snow or wind storm to knock out power for a week, which does have a fair chance of occuring. If its the 1 in a million chance a terrorist takes the power out for week, it makes little difference to me...
 
Originally Posted By: Doog

Ok 2013? Did they lose interest or are they as patient as AL-Qaida as in bombing the WTC in 1993 then again in 2001. Many people felt they "lost interest" in the WTC. Big mistake.

Of course we have terorists. But I don't see one behind every tree (as do you) and with the knowledge to take down a grid.


Quote:
The power grid is set up into 3 grids East/West and Texas.
The East and West do not share power across the grid. So multiple attacks to both E&W at the same time in high demand months (July-August) could prove to shut down or cripple major portions of both.

Just bc its a grid it doesn't all collapse in the event of a problem. It automatically isolates faults. Its not an "all or nothing thing"

Quote:
The second but most important point is: The attack was highly planned, very specific and successful.
No suspects have been identified or arrested.


Yea..it took a highly planned action that took down a substation and a couple of transformers..causing zero problems for everyone exept the people that were paid to fix it.


I think you are worrying too much needlessly. Have a beer and relax.
cheers3.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: IndyIan


Jeez, 12.5 million bad guys! I'm surprised you risk posting on a public internet forum at all. One of them must of read your posts here, and be worried that increased public awareness will foil one their sinister plots to kill all the "real" americans. You must be a target now!

I wouldn't even go outside if I was you! And you should get an Xray machine for your mail and food deliveries, just in case they try to get you that way.


You Canadians have a bigger problem. You have 51 documented terror organizations operating in your country. You'll figure it out when you have the same Muslim problem they have in France and the UK. keep laughing.....you must hate your kids.

http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/2014-pblc-rpr-trrrst-thrt/index-eng.aspx

Like you, I'm more likely to fall down in my tub, or get hit by a drunk, or get hit by lightning, or fall off my skidoo, or break my neck playing hockey, or roll my tractor, or fall a tree on myself, or just die from the flu, than have a terrorist affect my life in the slightest manner(other than flying being a PITA)...
Also that report was from our last fear mongering conservative government, so I'd think its a bit overblown.
I do happen to be semi-prepared for a snow or wind storm to knock out power for a week, which does have a fair chance of occuring. If its the 1 in a million chance a terrorist takes the power out for week, it makes little difference to me...


Yeah but what happens if Al Qaida decides to poison all of the maple syrup in Canada and blow up the Molson breweries?
 
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