We gonna take Gronks knees out!

[yeti]

Originally Posted By: Dallas69
Even though the Cowboys are my team,I think Brady is the best qb playing today.
He does more with less than anyone.
He has no running game.
No deep threat since Randy Moss.
A lousy offensive line.
Yet year after year they are near the top.
Montana always had a running game.
Had a guy named Jerry Rice.
Had a solid line in front of him.
Give Brady the weapons Montana had and I doubt he loses a SB.
Give Montana what Brady has and I don't think Joe wins 4.
People need to put aside their hatred of the Patriots just a little.




this.
my thoughts, exactly.
all facts, and objective -- which is rare on bitog.
this thread has become funny.
"only pats fans think brady is the best of all time", and "only pats haters deny that brady is the best of all time".these comments are laughable, and not true, and not objective.it's hard to argue that he is NOT the best of all time, given his accomplishmemts. but, these are opinions, and way too subjective.
Montana, bradshaw, manning, Elway have to be included in that conversation.there are more criteria than just the number of rings,which seems to elude a couple of you guys here.emotional attachment is responsible for many comments here.
read, again, dallas69's above post.

turtle -- your comments "I have no respect for you in any way, so I don't care what you think", and that you find his ideas repulsive, shows that you have committed the biggest cardinal sin of debate -- you got emotional, and emotion clouds judgement.your credibility is gone.
you remind me of another here, who will post 10, or 20 times in a thread, and rub people the wrong way.if you guys would keep emotion at bay, your credibility would not suffer.
as well, comments like this might end up getting a thread locked.
take care, guys, and have a good day/evening.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
"So as I said above Brady could just as easily be 3-3, 2-4, or even 1-5 in SB's."

So as I said above Brady could just as easily be 6-0 in SBs.





You act/talk like he actually IS 6-0 though and he isn't. You make it sound like he is not 6-0 because of bad luck yet you refuse to recognize that he has at least 3 of his SB wins through luck as well. How can you use that stance/logic one way and refuse to acknowledge it can also apply going the other way too? I don't get that and it is the kind of comments and arrogance from Patriot fans( I am speaking in general and not you specifically )that gets people so riled up. You also make comments that are just not accurate( like about Elway ). It makes it hard to agree with anything you say. I guess I shoud give up and not bother. You refuse to listen to anyone unless it is 100% pro Brady/Patriots. Talking to you about this is like listening to local sports radio. You would think Brady plays every position on O and D all by himself( ala a team of Brady )and never does wrong.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Brady has 6 championship wins; which is 50% more than the other guy. You think that does not count?

I am sorry but this is retarded logic and few people have called out on it.


1st off Brady has 5 AFC Championships. Drew Bledsoe came off the bench in 2001 when Brady got hurt in the AFC Championship game in Pittsburgh and won that game. I see Brady get credit for it all the time and it is wrong(IMO). No Bledsoe = no win that day.

So he has 5 AFC Conference Championships and they are just that and not NFL( Super Bowl )Championships. We both know which means more. 5 AFC titles is huge don't get me wrong but again it is not the same as a SB title.

Brady has been very fortunate to have played his career in the weak AFC East. It means 7-8 wins each year pretty much guaranteed. A bad year is to go 6-2 in the AFC East. That helps the Patriots end up with HFA most years and Foxboro is a huge plus for them just like playing at home in Denver is for the Broncos.

And before anyone starts on me about this all being [censored] let me remind them that the Brady lead Patriots have won exactly ONE AFC Championship when they had to play on the road. ONE. They beat Pittsburgh at Pittsburgh in 2004( again, in 2001 Bledsoe took over and beat them ). Conversely, they have only lost one game when the AFC Championship is at home. They don't fair as well on the road as they do at home; it is a huge swing. As said weak AFC East + HFA = an easier route for them to make the SB.

With that said they still have to go out and play the games and win and they do that. They have to play and win a majority of those non AFC East games, or at least go .500, to end up 12-4 or better. Again, they do their job and get those wins. They earn those games at home so good for them for taking advantage of it. Just pointing out some stuff people around here like to overlook. There is a LOT of factors that play into the road to the SB and winning it. Brady has had one of those careers where the calls, bounce of the ball, strength of schedule, etc... have contributed toward his success. That doesn't mean he isn't good, or hasn't done his part, just that he has been very fortunate. Guys like Dan Marino had the opposite luck in their career.

Brady Lead Patriots @ Home AFC Championship:
2003/2004 vs. Colts = W
2007/2008 vs. Chargers = W
2011/2012 vs. Ravens = W
2012/2013 vs. Ravens = L
2014/2015 vs. Colts = W

Record = 4-1

Brady Lead Patriots On Road AFC Championship:
2004/2005 @ Pittsburgh = W
2006/2007 @ Colts = L
2013/2014 @ Denver = L
2015/2016 @ Denver = L

Record = 1-3

Overall record in AFC Championship games is 5-4. Amazing getting there 9 times but only wins a little over 1/2 the time. He gets there a lot for sure but it is not a guarantee he wins as some make it out. The main factor seems to be if it is at home or on the road( as it is for most teams ).

 

[gman2304]

Go Panthers!

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: yeti
turtle -- your comments "I have no respect for you in any way, so I don't care what you think", and that you find his ideas repulsive, shows that you have committed the biggest cardinal sin of debate -- you got emotional, and emotion clouds judgement.your credibility is gone.
.


Remember there is history here between members. Football has nothing to do with it. There are a number of members I would never under any circumstances want to have any ties of any kind with. I don't want to be on any watchlists.

This subject is not subjective. Nobody cares about stats. Its how many times have you played in the big game and how many times have you won it. The thing is he has the stats too if you want to play it that way. He hasn't been accused of rape, he hasn't divorced, he hasn't trashed anybody. They went thru his phone and couldn't find anything negative about anybody. A model citizen. And he's not even close to being done yet. He's getting better with age.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: yeti
turtle -- your comments "I have no respect for you in any way, so I don't care what you think", and that you find his ideas repulsive, shows that you have committed the biggest cardinal sin of debate -- you got emotional, and emotion clouds judgement.your credibility is gone.
.


Remember there is history here between members. Football has nothing to do with it. There are a number of members I would never under any circumstances want to have any ties of any kind with. I don't want to be on any watchlists.

This subject is not subjective. Nobody cares about stats. Its how many times have you played in the big game and how many times have you won it. The thing is he has the stats too if you want to play it that way. He hasn't been accused of rape, he hasn't divorced, he hasn't trashed anybody. They went thru his phone and couldn't find anything negative about anybody. A model citizen. And he's not even close to being done yet. He's getting better with age.


WHAT? What history between members? Other than disagreeing with you and how you treat people what history? What watchlists? Have you lost your mind?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: yeti
turtle -- your comments "I have no respect for you in any way, so I don't care what you think", and that you find his ideas repulsive, shows that you have committed the biggest cardinal sin of debate -- you got emotional, and emotion clouds judgement.your credibility is gone.
.


Remember there is history here between members. Football has nothing to do with it. There are a number of members I would never under any circumstances want to have any ties of any kind with. I don't want to be on any watchlists.

This subject is not subjective. Nobody cares about stats. Its how many times have you played in the big game and how many times have you won it. The thing is he has the stats too if you want to play it that way. He hasn't been accused of rape, he hasn't divorced, he hasn't trashed anybody. They went thru his phone and couldn't find anything negative about anybody. A model citizen. And he's not even close to being done yet. He's getting better with age.


WHAT? What history between members? Other than disagreeing with you and how you treat people what history? What watchlists? Have you lost your mind?


Forget it. Pats fans look at their team through Pats colored glasses, they drink the Pats Kool-Aid, whatever cliché you want to use, they've got it, and throwing facts at them isn't going to change their minds. To them the Pats are the greatest team ever, with the greatest QB ever, and the greatest coach ever, even though none of these are actually true...One of the guys on Morning Men, a sports talk show on Mad Dog Radio on Sirius/XM satellite radio is the same way...according to him the Pats can do no wrong and are the greatest team ever...whenever he starts talking his pro-Pats B S it's so sickening I have to change the channel...he is so blinded by being a Pats homer he's can't be objective...that's pretty much the same for all Pats fans...

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: yeti
turtle -- your comments "I have no respect for you in any way, so I don't care what you think", and that you find his ideas repulsive, shows that you have committed the biggest cardinal sin of debate -- you got emotional, and emotion clouds judgement.your credibility is gone.
.


Remember there is history here between members. Football has nothing to do with it. There are a number of members I would never under any circumstances want to have any ties of any kind with. I don't want to be on any watchlists.

This subject is not subjective. Nobody cares about stats. Its how many times have you played in the big game and how many times have you won it. The thing is he has the stats too if you want to play it that way. He hasn't been accused of rape, he hasn't divorced, he hasn't trashed anybody. They went thru his phone and couldn't find anything negative about anybody. A model citizen. And he's not even close to being done yet. He's getting better with age.


WHAT? What history between members? Other than disagreeing with you and how you treat people what history? What watchlists? Have you lost your mind?


Yes. He lost his mind long ago.

 

[Nate1979]

It is very difficult to directly compare to players because they do not play in a bubble one on one. The team surrounding them has a huge impact on performance.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: yeti
turtle -- your comments "I have no respect for you in any way, so I don't care what you think", and that you find his ideas repulsive, shows that you have committed the biggest cardinal sin of debate -- you got emotional, and emotion clouds judgement.your credibility is gone.
.


Remember there is history here between members. Football has nothing to do with it. There are a number of members I would never under any circumstances want to have any ties of any kind with. I don't want to be on any watchlists.

This subject is not subjective. Nobody cares about stats. Its how many times have you played in the big game and how many times have you won it. The thing is he has the stats too if you want to play it that way. He hasn't been accused of rape, he hasn't divorced, he hasn't trashed anybody. They went thru his phone and couldn't find anything negative about anybody. A model citizen. And he's not even close to being done yet. He's getting better with age.


WHAT? What history between members? Other than disagreeing with you and how you treat people what history? What watchlists? Have you lost your mind?


Forget it. Pats fans look at their team through Pats colored glasses, they drink the Pats Kool-Aid, whatever cliché you want to use, they've got it, and throwing facts at them isn't going to change their minds. To them the Pats are the greatest team ever, with the greatest QB ever, and the greatest coach ever, even though none of these are actually true...One of the guys on Morning Men, a sports talk show on Mad Dog Radio on Sirius/XM satellite radio is the same way...according to him the Pats can do no wrong and are the greatest team ever...whenever he starts talking his pro-Pats B S it's so sickening I have to change the channel...he is so blinded by being a Pats homer he's can't be objective...that's pretty much the same for all Pats fans...


It isn't ALL Patriot fans Grampi. I am actually a fan of the team itself. Well, I am actually on a hiatus/sabbatical of sorts until Brady and Belichik leave and then I will come back. I can't support cheaters, not even if it means not being able to enjoy the championships they win that I waited decades for. I was raised better than that.

I have followed them and rooted for them however since the days of Jim Plunkett( many do not know he was drafted by NE and played his 1st 5 seasons there from 1971 - 1975 ). So while I currently have problems with the team it is temporary and I don't hold the ill will I have for the coach( a lot )and QB( some )against the other players. I must admit I am also disappointed Kraft has put winning at all costs above integrity and fair play like he believed in when he 1st bought the team. Winning has corrupted his values it seems; sadly.

Just saying this to point out it is not ALL Patriot fans. There are a lot of people here like me who do not blindly support every move and decision that comes down nor do they believe that the coach and QB walk on water. As with most things it is the rabid, vocal, group that appears to represent the whole when it doesn't. They are the majority for sure but it isn't 100%.

Don't let some here have you thinking everyone from out here is like that. There are reasonable a nd level headed folks too.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
It is very difficult to directly compare to players because they do not play in a bubble one on one. The team surrounding them has a huge impact on performance.

I was eluding to this in some of my long winded prior posts.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
It isn't ALL Patriot fans Grampi. I am actually a fan of the team itself. Well, I am actually on a hiatus/sabbatical of sorts until Brady and Belichik leave and then I will come back. I can't support cheaters, not even if it means not being able to enjoy the championships they win that I waited decades for. I was raised better than that.

I have followed them and rooted for them however since the days of Jim Plunkett( many do not know he was drafted by NE and played his 1st 5 seasons there from 1971 - 1975 ). So while I currently have problems with the team it is temporary and I don't hold the ill will I have for the coach( a lot )and QB( some )against the other players. I must admit I am also disappointed Kraft has put winning at all costs above integrity and fair play like he believed in when he 1st bought the team. Winning has corrupted his values it seems; sadly.

Just saying this to point out it is not ALL Patriot fans. There are a lot of people here like me who do not blindly support every move and decision that comes down nor do they believe that the coach and QB walk on water. As with most things it is the rabid, vocal, group that appears to represent the whole when it doesn't. They are the majority for sure but it isn't 100%.

Don't let some here have you thinking everyone from out here is like that. There are reasonable a nd level headed folks too.

Poor choice of words on my part...what I should've said is only Pats fans think the Pats, their QB, and their HC are the greatest ever...and they will never admit their team, or any of their players have ever cheated...Turtlevette even went out of his way to tell us how squeaky clean and wholesome Brady is...what a joke!

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: grampi
[...Turtlevette even went out of his way to tell us how squeaky clean and wholesome Brady is...what a joke!


We're attempting to get a DNA sample to see if he's the second coming of Jesus.

 

[turtlevette]

I just saw a clip of Kurt Warner saying he's changed his mind. The best of all time is not Montana it's Brady.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I just saw a clip of Kurt Warner saying he's changed his mind. The best of all time is not Montana it's Brady.




In your dreams...

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I just saw a clip of Kurt Warner saying he's changed his mind. The best of all time is not Montana it's Brady.




In your dreams...


Have you seen a picture of that guy. He looks all shrivelled up. If I look like that at 59 , put me down.

 

[yeti]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I just saw a clip of Kurt Warner saying he's changed his mind. The best of all time is not Montana it's Brady.




In your dreams...


Have you seen a picture of that guy. He looks all shrivelled up. If I look like that at 59 , put me down.



a whole day has gone by, and grampi is the only one to take turtle's bait, into yet another argument about who is the best .... .people are finally learning.

turtle -- I owe you an apology, since I thought you were in your seventies.
have a good night, all.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: yeti
[

turtle -- I owe you an apology, since I thought you were in your seventies.
have a good night, all.


Wisdom beyond my years. That's the only explanation.

On the tb12 plan I won't look like Montana when I'm 59.