Oil burner - resolve without teardown?

[PAoutdoorsman]

This Mazda 2.3 was burning oil at a high rate. Roughly 1 quart to 250 miles. Upon teardown, I found the expander rings completely gummed shut. I'm rebuilding this one, but just curious if you guys were aware of any solution that would clear this type of gunk and reduce oil consumption without a tear down?

 

[Oro_O]

There are some things to try, which I have seen to work.

A few different engines are subject to this because of poor ring design - usually inadequate drain holes. Lots of Saturns, some years of Toyota I4 and Isuzu V6 are well known for this.

Good results have come from a piston soak - pulling the plugs, injecting a cleaning solution (GM Top Engine Cleaner, SeaFoam, even ATF, etc.) in the cylinders, letting them soak a few hours/overnight, then blowing out and re-starting. I have seen improvement in oil consumption from this.

Running HDEO for added cleaning over time helps. Some people also suggest an "Italian tune-up" periodically but I have no experience with this.

For a permanent fix on some vehicles, there are improved rings which can curb it. I don't know about Mazdas, though.

 

[CT8]

Tell us more about the engine,oil used.the maintenance and how the engine was run.

 

[aquariuscsm]

What causes that to happen? Running an oil change for too long?

 

[cjcride]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
What causes that to happen? Running an oil change for too long?

With the Corolla generation 8 engines it was solved by adding more oil holes in the piston lands for the oil ring.
Extended oil change intervals contribute to the problem.
I'll bet if only synthetic oil was used with proper oil change intervals the problem might not happen.

 

[Bluestream]

Saturn's were known oil burners as GM forgot to put oil drain holes in the pistons

Here's a TSB that may be relevant:

I Quote the TSB starting here :

"All 1991 - 1997 Saturn S-Series Vehicles
Condition

Some customers may comment that the engine is using 1 quart (0.951 liter) or more of oil every 3000 mi. (4827 km).
Cause

Engine oil consumption greater than 1 quart (0.951 liter) in 3000 mi. (4827 km) may be caused by stuck/sticking oil control and/or compression rings. Engine deposits may build up on and around the oil control ring(s), compression ring(s) and piston ring land(s) causing the ring(s) to stick and become less effective.
Correction

Perform internal engine cleaning procedure or engine repair procedure depending on amount of oil consumption.

IF engine uses 1 quart (0.951 liter) of oil in:

1500 mi. - 3000 mi. (2414 km -4827 km), perform Procedure 1: Internal Engine Cleaning

1499 mi. (2414 km) or less, perform Procedure 2: Engine Repair

While Saturn still considers oil consumption of 1 quart (0.951 liter) in 2000 mi. (3218 km) to be an acceptable level, the engine cleaning procedure contained in this bulletin may improve oil consumption performance to an even more acceptable level.
Engine Inspection and Oil Consumption Test:

1. Inspect engine for external oil leaks and repair as necessary.

2. Verify that the correct crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve is installed. Some aftermarket PCV valves do not meet Saturn specification and can cause oil consumption. (Refer to the following chart for correct application.)

3. Change engine oil and filter (3.8 liters [4 quarts] of oil are required to properly fill the crankcase).

4. Start engine and bring up to normal operating temperature of 197°-212° ;F (97°-100°C).

5. Park vehicle on level ground and wait a minimum of five minutes after engine is shut off. Check engine oil level to make sure it's at the FULL mark on the dipstick.

6. Mark the oil level on the dipstick with a scribe, if it is not exactly at FULL mark.

7. Record the vehicle's mileage, date of oil change and exact location of oil level on the Customer Service Order.

8. Return vehicle to customer and have customer check the engine oil level at each fuel fill and return the vehicle if oil level is at the ADD mark. If the oil level remains in the "cross-hatch" area, have the customer continue operating the vehicle for a minimum of 2000 miles (3218 km) before returning the vehicle for final oil consumption verification.

If engine uses 1 quart (0.951 liter) of oil in:

* 3000 mi. (4827 km) or more, return vehicle to customer - this is acceptable oil consumption.
* 1500 mi. -3000 mi. (2414 km - 4827 km) proceed to Procedure 1 in this bulletin.
* 1499 mi. (2414 km) or less proceed to Procedure 2 in this bulletin.

Procedure - 1 Internal Engine Cleaning

1. Warm up to normal operating temperature.

Important

In order for the cleaner to be effective, the engine must be warm.
2. Disconnect negative battery cable.
3. Remove spark plugs.

4. Rotate engine crankshaft until notch in crank pulley is at 3 o'clock (90° after top dead center) position. This will position all of the pistons midway in their bores.
5. Pour 3 ounces of GM Piston and Ring Cleaner (P/N 12378549 12 ounce bottle) into each cylinder through the spark plug hole.
6. Cover the cylinder head and spark plug holes to prevent debris from getting into the combustion chamber and to prevent excess evaporation of the cleaner.
7. Allow the engine cleaner to soak for a minimum of 2 hours.

Notice

After the minimum 2-hour soak, there may be some cleaner left in the combustion chambers. Do not start the engine until all of the cleaner has been removed from the combustion chamber or severe engine damage may occur.
8. After the minimum 2-hour soak, remove the remaining cleaner from the combustion chambers by placing shop towels over all of the spark plug holes and cranking the engine through a few revolutions.
9. Install the spark plugs and spark plug wires.
10. Start the engine and run only enough to reach normal operating temperature.
11. Drain the engine oil and remove oil filter.
12. Install new oil filter (P/N 21000872).

Important

*Mobil® 1 Synthetic 5W-30 or 10W-30 engine oil is to be used during the initial oil change interval following this procedure. Mobil® 1 Synthetic oil has excellent engine cleaning properties that will aid in removing deposits that were loosened and softened during this procedure.

*We believe this source and their products to be reliable. There may be additional manufacturers of such products. General Motors does not endorse, indicate any preference for or assume any responsibility for the products from this firm or for any such items which may be available from other sources.
13. Install 4 quarts (3.8 L) of Mobil® 1 Synthetic 5W-30 or 10W-30 engine oil.
14. Return vehicle to customer.
15. After 1500-3000 miles of operation, have the customer return for next oil change.
16. Drain engine oil and remove oil filter.
17. Install new oil filter (P/N 21000872)
18. Install 4 quarts (3.8 L) of engine oil meeting Saturn specifications.
19. Refer to Oil Consumption Test and perform steps 4 through 8.
"

 

[racin4ds]

Got an 03 Honda CR-V right now that I'm suspecting suffers from this exact issue. I performed a piston soak the other day with a MMO/Seafoam blend in the plug holes to soak overnight.

So far it seems to have helped a lot, more driving is necessary though to confirm.

 

[xxch4osxx]

What year Mazda 3 is this from? The other half's 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 doesn't use any oil between changes. I usually change the oil every 8000 to 10,000kms.

 

[Gasbuggy]

MazdaSpeed?

 

[PAoutdoorsman]

This engine is in a 2007 MazdaSpeed 6. I bought it the way it sits so I have no idea of the oil maintenance history, but I suspect long OCI's on conventional.

The engine suffered a spun rod bearing because the poor fella that bought it before me had no idea it was using oil and promptly ran it low.

 

[PAoutdoorsman]

Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
What year Mazda 3 is this from? The other half's 2008 Mazda 3 2.3 doesn't use any oil between changes. I usually change the oil every 8000 to 10,000kms.


This is actually from an 07 MazdaSpeed 6. I have an 04 Mazda 3 with a naturally aspirated 2.3 that my daughter runs. It has 209,xxx on it and I run 5k changes on Mobil 1 5w30. It's usually down about a half quart at the 5000 mile change interval.

 

[PAoutdoorsman]

Originally Posted By: Or
There are some things to try, which I have seen to work.

A few different engines are subject to this because of poor ring design - usually inadequate drain holes. Lots of Saturns, some years of Toyota I4 and Isuzu V6 are well known for this.

Good results have come from a piston soak - pulling the plugs, injecting a cleaning solution (GM Top Engine Cleaner, SeaFoam, even ATF, etc.) in the cylinders, letting them soak a few hours/overnight, then blowing out and re-starting. I have seen improvement in oil consumption from this.

Running HDEO for added cleaning over time helps. Some people also suggest an "Italian tune-up" periodically but I have no experience with this.

For a permanent fix on some vehicles, there are improved rings which can curb it. I don't know about Mazdas, though.


Does HDEO have additional detergents or something?

If doing a piston soak, I assume you would just have to crank it over with the plugs out to blow it out?

 

[cjcride]

Originally Posted By: PAoutdoorsman
Originally Posted By: Or
There are some things to try, which I have seen to work.

A few different engines are subject to this because of poor ring design - usually inadequate drain holes. Lots of Saturns, some years of Toyota I4 and Isuzu V6 are well known for this.

Good results have come from a piston soak - pulling the plugs, injecting a cleaning solution (GM Top Engine Cleaner, SeaFoam, even ATF, etc.) in the cylinders, letting them soak a few hours/overnight, then blowing out and re-starting. I have seen improvement in oil consumption from this.

Running HDEO for added cleaning over time helps. Some people also suggest an "Italian tune-up" periodically but I have no experience with this.

For a permanent fix on some vehicles, there are improved rings which can curb it. I don't know about Mazdas, though.


Does HDEO have additional detergents or something?

If doing a piston soak, I assume you would just have to crank it over with the plugs out to blow it out?

That is usually advised or you can hydrolock the engine. Leave old towel laying on top of engine to catch the spray.

 

[Oro_O]

Yes, the added detergents in the HDEO are the reason.

Don't forget those towels when blowing out the cylinders!

Most HDEOs are 15w-40, which helps w/comsumption, too. For cars that don't like that thickness, I've heard of people using Mobil 1 TDT (turbo diesel truck) which is a thinner full synthetic. Since getting my issue under control, I have been using Mobil1 10w-40 HM. It has greatly reduced consumption and is (hopefully) keeping thinks clean and working right.