There's nothing wrong with satisfying one's curiosity. Just don't fall into the mathematical traps that many do.
Mobil Delvac 1 ESP VOA 4-24-15
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Looking at this make me feel better about my impulse buy at meijers this last weekend. A 4-1gal case, $110and got change, leave a full untouched jug after service.
It will be going in the 97 F250HD 7.3 at the 204,500miles full wet A PM service, minus the uoa during this service.
Harvey
P.S. thank you for the time, money, and voa.
I will be planning a sample after filter change and drain. I will share the uoa in return, in due time.
It will be going in the 97 F250HD 7.3 at the 204,500miles full wet A PM service, minus the uoa during this service.
Harvey
P.S. thank you for the time, money, and voa.
I will be planning a sample after filter change and drain. I will share the uoa in return, in due time.
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They had this oil on black friday special at Blaines Farm and Fleet, $16.99/gal.
I'd have to believe this is because the low market oil prices are allowing discounts at the wholesale end. I'd have to think this oil has more group III basestock than PAO, allowing the pricing points i've seen.
Yes 0 moly, i'd think thats value engineering. However 98ppm Boron.
While it maybe a great oil, its value engineered to compete with Rotella T6/delo.
I have a white paper with research from UC Argonne Laboratory on adding molybdenum to engine oil resulting in lower wear. PM me your email I can send the .pdf to anyone interested.
I'd have to believe this is because the low market oil prices are allowing discounts at the wholesale end. I'd have to think this oil has more group III basestock than PAO, allowing the pricing points i've seen.
Yes 0 moly, i'd think thats value engineering. However 98ppm Boron.
While it maybe a great oil, its value engineered to compete with Rotella T6/delo.
I have a white paper with research from UC Argonne Laboratory on adding molybdenum to engine oil resulting in lower wear. PM me your email I can send the .pdf to anyone interested.
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In follow up my discussion previously with Garak and this oil (Mobil 1 Delvac ESP 5W-40) in conjunction with Liqui Moly MoS2 has provided me around 3% fuel economy gain:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=4965572#post4965572
In conclusion:
* 100% city average 2004 Passat TDI wagon without LM MoS2 = 36.8 MPG
* 100% city average 2004 Passat TDI wagon with LM MoS2 = 37.9 MPG
* Gain = 3%
Gathering of data continues (around 40 points so far) so nothing is written in concrete and the results might change in the future until I change the oil (10K miles or so). Me expectation is for the gain to decrease but still statistically significant (around 2% perhaps).
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=4965572#post4965572
In conclusion:
* 100% city average 2004 Passat TDI wagon without LM MoS2 = 36.8 MPG
* 100% city average 2004 Passat TDI wagon with LM MoS2 = 37.9 MPG
* Gain = 3%
Gathering of data continues (around 40 points so far) so nothing is written in concrete and the results might change in the future until I change the oil (10K miles or so). Me expectation is for the gain to decrease but still statistically significant (around 2% perhaps).
Originally Posted By: Fraser434
They had this oil on black friday special at Blaines Farm and Fleet, $16.99/gal.
I'd have to believe this is because the low market oil prices are allowing discounts at the wholesale end. I'd have to think this oil has more group III basestock than PAO, allowing the pricing points i've seen.
Yes 0 moly, i'd think thats value engineering. However 98ppm Boron.
While it maybe a great oil, its value engineered to compete with Rotella T6/delo.
I have a white paper with research from UC Argonne Laboratory on adding molybdenum to engine oil resulting in lower wear. PM me your email I can send the .pdf to anyone interested.
Yes there are several papers from Argonne and other researchers dealing with molybdenum and other solid lubricants such as WS2 (Tungsten Disulfide) and hexagonal Boron Nitride. Very interesting stuff indeed in today's modern engine oils trending towards lower SAPS!
They had this oil on black friday special at Blaines Farm and Fleet, $16.99/gal.
I'd have to believe this is because the low market oil prices are allowing discounts at the wholesale end. I'd have to think this oil has more group III basestock than PAO, allowing the pricing points i've seen.
Yes 0 moly, i'd think thats value engineering. However 98ppm Boron.
While it maybe a great oil, its value engineered to compete with Rotella T6/delo.
I have a white paper with research from UC Argonne Laboratory on adding molybdenum to engine oil resulting in lower wear. PM me your email I can send the .pdf to anyone interested.
Yes there are several papers from Argonne and other researchers dealing with molybdenum and other solid lubricants such as WS2 (Tungsten Disulfide) and hexagonal Boron Nitride. Very interesting stuff indeed in today's modern engine oils trending towards lower SAPS!
You have to do the error analysis now, and you'll find the error bars are bigger than your change in fuel economy.
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OP - thanks for doing this. At the time that you posted it, I had no need for it, but things change! I picked up 16 gallons of this oil from PepBoys at 35% off and free shipping during the black Friday specials for my 2015 PSD.
Originally Posted By: Garak
You have to do the error analysis now, and you'll find the error bars are bigger than your change in fuel economy.
Garak, my approach is comparing averages to averages in a similar methodology of collecting data based on the central limit theorem.
Are the distributions absolutely normal, no. But the data points are not just a few either.
My overall Fuelly tanks are also starting to show gains so this is beyond a mere coincidence in my view.
You have to do the error analysis now, and you'll find the error bars are bigger than your change in fuel economy.
Garak, my approach is comparing averages to averages in a similar methodology of collecting data based on the central limit theorem.
Are the distributions absolutely normal, no. But the data points are not just a few either.
My overall Fuelly tanks are also starting to show gains so this is beyond a mere coincidence in my view.
The error bars are still going to be, unfortunately, significantly higher than 3%. I understand your point, and I have "seen" differences myself by doing certain things differently (i.e. E0 versus E10), but 3% far too easily falls within the noise. Gasoline pumps aren't even required to have accuracy under 3%, so that puts the data points beneath the error bars there, all on its own.
The central limit theorem does have its place in fuel economy calculations, but I'd be looking to a much greater sample size that accurately covers off more variables; even then, there are pitfalls. Even for a large fleet with a steady driver pool, there are still variables that should be minimized, including fuel reformulation, even.
For an individual trial, you're stuck with eliminating as many variables as you can, to the point that you need a lab.
The central limit theorem does have its place in fuel economy calculations, but I'd be looking to a much greater sample size that accurately covers off more variables; even then, there are pitfalls. Even for a large fleet with a steady driver pool, there are still variables that should be minimized, including fuel reformulation, even.
For an individual trial, you're stuck with eliminating as many variables as you can, to the point that you need a lab.
I can see if one was using the fuel pump approach it can be a problem but my methodology does not rely on filling up the tank (details provided in my TDIClub link) and even so my Fuelly measurements are also independent of the pump equipment as D2 can be filled always to the neck of the fuel tank (non-flammable).
In any case I think we have taken enough bandwidth in this thread regarding MoS2. For follow ups please respond in the oil additives forum where I have posted my results/link. Thanks.
Originally Posted By: Garak
The error bars are still going to be, unfortunately, significantly higher than 3%. I understand your point, and I have "seen" differences myself by doing certain things differently (i.e. E0 versus E10), but 3% far too easily falls within the noise. Gasoline pumps aren't even required to have accuracy under 3%, so that puts the data points beneath the error bars there, all on its own.
The central limit theorem does have its place in fuel economy calculations, but I'd be looking to a much greater sample size that accurately covers off more variables; even then, there are pitfalls. Even for a large fleet with a steady driver pool, there are still variables that should be minimized, including fuel reformulation, even.
For an individual trial, you're stuck with eliminating as many variables as you can, to the point that you need a lab.
In any case I think we have taken enough bandwidth in this thread regarding MoS2. For follow ups please respond in the oil additives forum where I have posted my results/link. Thanks.
Originally Posted By: Garak
The error bars are still going to be, unfortunately, significantly higher than 3%. I understand your point, and I have "seen" differences myself by doing certain things differently (i.e. E0 versus E10), but 3% far too easily falls within the noise. Gasoline pumps aren't even required to have accuracy under 3%, so that puts the data points beneath the error bars there, all on its own.
The central limit theorem does have its place in fuel economy calculations, but I'd be looking to a much greater sample size that accurately covers off more variables; even then, there are pitfalls. Even for a large fleet with a steady driver pool, there are still variables that should be minimized, including fuel reformulation, even.
For an individual trial, you're stuck with eliminating as many variables as you can, to the point that you need a lab.
I'll have to take a look at your results, provided I remember. Even with the fuel neck approach, having a constant volume is still difficult. In iny case, I'll take a peek.
Pep Boys in Baltimore County Maryland sells gallon of this oil for 27.00. It is the only oil they sell that is a good deal.
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