Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w40 vs BMW 5w30 LL-01 oil

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

TomX3

Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
27
Location
NYC area
I'm not having much luck finding information such as VOA's and UOA's on Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w40 or the new BMW LL-01 oil made by Shell. And to be honest, even if I did find the information I was looking for I probably wouldn't be able to interpret it as well as others.

The PP Euro 5w40 is the most easily accessible for me which is why I am more interested in it over the 5w30, even though that's also LL-01 approved.

What differences I have been able to figure out so far is the BMW oil is API SL while the PP Euro is the more current API SN.

Also it sounds like PP Euro does not have the same engine cleaning characteristics that Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum have according to the Pennzoil FAQ. Is that true? What about the BMW oil?

Is the BMW oil made from natural gass (PurePlus technology)? Some of the press releases I read imply that but haven't really confirmed it.
 
The first question you need to get answered is how many LL-01 oils are actually produced by Shell and sold in North America under the Pennzoil name. By that, I mean real oils, that can be found on the shelf, and that are current production. As I mentioned elsewhere, there have been phantom products, relabeling, fiddling, and stuff that isn't readily available to consumers, so none of this is helpful. Personally, I'd be more interested in finding a readily available and stable supply of one example, rather than comparing two essentially interchangeable products.

With respect to SL versus SN, do recall that's an artifact of viscosity in this case. A 5w-40 can have SN certification with higher phosphorus numbers than a 30 or 20 grade can, unless the first API specification they list is CJ-4. So, you can see a CJ-4/SN 10w-30 with high phosphorus or an SN 5w-40 with high phosphorus, but not an SN 10w-30 with high phosphorus.
 
I'm asking about 2 specific oils that are real, they exist, and I have easy access to because they're sold on shelves near me.

I'm hoping to get responses from real people that have have actual experience and may have performed VOAs or UOAs on these oils or have seen them and can interpret the differences if any such people exist.

My questions were very specific in the hope that this thread doesn't go off on a tangent like the last one.
 
What I was talking about was your mention of PP Euro versus PP versus PUP as if they were actual competing products meeting the same specifications, being sold concurrently, which has never been demonstrated to be the case.

I can find Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4, 5w-40 A3/B4, and 0w-40 A3/B4 all on the same shelf in one retail outlet. Does that apply to three Pennzoil A3/B4 products in North America? I haven't seen one on any shelf, let alone three on the same one.
 
Originally Posted By: TomX3
I'm hoping to get responses from real people that have have actual experience and may have performed VOAs or UOAs on these oils or have seen them and can interpret the differences if any such people exist.
My questions were very specific in the hope that this thread doesn't go off on a tangent like the last one.


They do not exist on this forum, and even if they did a UOA or VOA or any personal experience would not be sufficient to answer the question you are asking. If anyone tells you different they are either lying or delusional. Besides, even if the UOA were really relevant to determine which oil is better than another, the results would be based on that specific operating environment - not yours.

You're going to continue to be frustrated with the answers if that's what you want.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn

You're going to continue to be frustrated with the answers if that's what you want.

Agreed.

I hate to say it, but the OP is way overthinking this, to the point of analysis paralysis. Just pick any LL-01 approved oil and be done with it.


Originally Posted By: TomX3

I'm hoping to get responses from real people that have have actual experience and may have performed VOAs or UOAs on these oils or have seen them and can interpret the differences if any such people exist.

The best I can offer is UOAs from my 530i with the M54 engine using the older version of Pennzoil Euro 5w-40...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2983142#Post2983142

Not really sure you can draw much from it though.
 
Originally Posted By: TomX3
Is the BMW oil made from natural gass (PurePlus technology)?

As far as I know, it is.

There is a Pennzoil lady that posts here on BITOG. Gena Fishbeck? Maybe you can ask her, although she's on the marketing side, not engineering.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The best I can offer is UOAs from my 530i with the M54 engine using the older version of Pennzoil Euro 5w-40...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2983142#Post2983142

Not really sure you can draw much from it though.


I think you already know the answer to that.

I do. I was just hoping the OP can draw his own conclusions.
smile.gif
 
You're splitting hairs here. Your engine will last just as long and be just as clean on any LL-01 synthetic; Mobil 1 0w-40, Castrol 0w-40, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: TomX3
Is the BMW oil made from natural gas (PurePlus technology)?
As far as I know, it is.

There is a Pennzoil lady that posts here on BITOG. Gena Fishbeck? Maybe you can ask her, although she's on the marketing side, not engineering.


The real question is what would that (GTL) get you in terms of performance compared to another LL-01 oil? No one can answer that question. Besides, GTL is a hydrocracked Group III oil just like Visom is, and no one knows if ExxonMobil is even using Visom anymore nor do they know what the concentration is in 0W-40, nor do they know what it would even mean if they did. All one can say at this point is that there are fully formulated oils that carry the LL-01 certification and there are oils that do not. Anything else is an attempt to deep-read the tea leaves based on insufficient data and lack of ability to interpret.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I do. I was just hoping the OP can draw his own conclusions.
smile.gif



And, what you can draw from it is exactly what they posted on the UOA: "The condition of the oil is suitable for further service".

You have no coolant in the oil, the TBN is not 0, and there aren't huge metal numbers that would indicate some sort of catastrophic engine failure (which would be unrelated to the oil, anyway).
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The best I can offer is UOAs from my 530i with the M54 engine using the older version of Pennzoil Euro 5w-40...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2983142#Post2983142

Not really sure you can draw much from it though.


The older version of Pennzoil Euro was called Pennzoil Ultra Euro, new one is Pennzoil Platinum Euro. Pennzoil doesn't have current TDS's available online for the new oil. As best I can tell there are some differences between old and new. HTHS was 3.88 now 3.5 but in 2009 was 3.68, CCS Visocisity was 6200 now 6300, Visc@40C was 80.8, now 74.4, Flash point was 420 now 215, old was ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, new is A3/B3-10, A3/B4-10. Recent TDS's haven't listed things like Noack Volatility.

So no, that doesn't help because it's a different oil than the one I'm asking about.

Maybe the differences are minor but I'm curious as to what they are because there isn't a lot of info available for the new oil and because of similar names it's hard to differentiate when people are talking about the old and the new.

I'm also curious how it's different from the BMW oil.

If these questions can't be answered, I'm fine with that and I'm fine waiting to see if someone does answer these questions.
 
Originally Posted By: TomX3
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The best I can offer is UOAs from my 530i with the M54 engine using the older version of Pennzoil Euro 5w-40...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2983142#Post2983142

Not really sure you can draw much from it though.


The older version of Pennzoil Euro was called Pennzoil Ultra Euro, new one is Pennzoil Platinum Euro. Pennzoil doesn't have current TDS's available online for the new oil. As best I can tell there are some differences between old and new. HTHS was 3.88 now 3.5 but in 2009 was 3.68, CCS Visocisity was 6200 now 6300, Visc@40C was 80.8, now 74.4, Flash point was 420 now 215, old was ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, new is A3/B3-10, A3/B4-10. Recent TDS's haven't listed things like Noack Volatility.

So no, that doesn't help because it's a different oil than the one I'm asking about.

Maybe the differences are minor but I'm curious as to what they are because there isn't a lot of info available for the new oil and because of similar names it's hard to differentiate when people are talking about the old and the new.

I'm also curious how it's different from the BMW oil.

If these questions can't be answered, I'm fine with that and I'm fine waiting to see if someone does answer these questions.

I would say HTHS of GTL Platinum is still 3.88. What they list is minimum required HTHS which is 3.5. There is NO WAY HTHS of PP 5W40 is 3.5cp.
 
Originally Posted By: TomX3
The older version of Pennzoil Euro was called Pennzoil Ultra Euro, new one is Pennzoil Platinum Euro. Pennzoil doesn't have current TDS's available online for the new oil. As best I can tell there are some differences between old and new. HTHS was 3.88 now 3.5 but in 2009 was 3.68, CCS Visocisity was 6200 now 6300, Visc@40C was 80.8, now 74.4, Flash point was 420 now 215, old was ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, new is A3/B3-10, A3/B4-10. Recent TDS's haven't listed things like Noack Volatility.

Do you really think that having HT/HS viscosity of 3.68 vs 3.88 is going to make a noticeable difference to your engine?

Same goes for Noack. Noack has to be no more than 10% if the oil meets MB 229.5 spec.

You are really into fine hair splitting territory now... I kindly suggest you find something more important to worry about.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: TomX3

The older version of Pennzoil Euro was called Pennzoil Ultra Euro, new one is Pennzoil Platinum Euro. Pennzoil doesn't have current TDS's available online for the new oil. As best I can tell there are some differences between old and new. HTHS was 3.88 now 3.5 but in 2009 was 3.68, CCS Viscosity was 6200 now 6300, Visc@40C was 80.8, now 74.4, Flash point was 420 now 215, old was ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, new is A3/B3-10, A3/B4-10. Recent TDS's haven't listed things like Noack Volatility.


PU 5W-40 Euro SN Jan. 2013 TDS Flash Point 420°F = 216°C

PU 5W-40 TDS Link

PP w/PPT 5W-40 Euro SN Feb. 24, 2015 TDS Flash Point 215°C = 419°F

PPw/PPT 5W-40 TDS Link

I see no fundamental difference in reported flash point to 3 significant figures personally but to each their own.

There was a prior Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 API SM product (without PurePlus Technology) as well. This is the May 2009 TDS.

PP Euro 5W-40 TDS
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I really think that having HT/HS viscosity of 3.68 vs 3.88 is going to make a noticeable difference to your engine?

Same goes for Noack. Noack has to be no more than 10% if the oil meets MB 229.5 spec.

You are really into fine hair splitting territory now... I kindly suggest you find something more important to worry about.
smile.gif




OCD can do that to you...
 
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
TDS Flash Point 420°F = 216°C


Thanks for pointing that out. I kept thinking I had something wrong because having a flash point so far bellow 400 didn't make any sense. Those TDS's you linked to were where I got some of my information too. I didn't have time to take a good look at them, just looked to see that there were differences.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I really think that having HT/HS viscosity of 3.68 vs 3.88 is going to make a noticeable difference to your engine?

Same goes for Noack. Noack has to be no more than 10% if the oil meets MB 229.5 spec.

You are really into fine hair splitting territory now... I kindly suggest you find something more important to worry about.
smile.gif



Pennzoil doesn't have TDS's listed for the Euro oils and the ones I could find are old and don't come directly from Pennzoil or Shell. Some of the TDS's don't contain as much info as some of the older ones. At least one of the key selling points for PU and PP doesn't appear to apply to PP Euro, at least to the same extent, according to statements Pennzoil has made.

Do I think those differences are going to have a huge impact? No. Would I still like to know what those differences are in non-marketing speak? Yes.

I've read a lot of posts on this forum over the years. If there's any place to split hairs over the technical details of oil, it's this place. If that sort of discussion doesn't interest you... there is no rule that forces you to reply to every new thread.
 
Originally Posted By: TomX3
Those TDS's you linked to were where I got some of my information too. I didn't have time to take a good look at them, just looked to see that there were differences.


Pennzoil doesn't have TDS's listed for the Euro oils and the ones I could find are old and don't come directly from Pennzoil or Shell. Some of the TDS's don't contain as much info as some of the older ones. At least one of the key selling points for PU and PP doesn't appear to apply to PP Euro, at least to the same extent, according to statements Pennzoil has made.


So who does this TDS for Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 Full Synthetic Motor Oil with PurePlus Technology come from (says SOPUS on the document), and what formulation changes are you aware of happening since the Feb. 24, 2015 date on the TDS?

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha

PPw/PPT 5W-40 TDS Link
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

F
Pennzoil Platinum Euro L vs QuakerState Euro?
2 3
Replies
48
Views
6K
edyvw
W
  • Locked
Castrol Euro Oil Changes
2
Replies
24
Views
3K
dogememe
F
Why do oils lose spec approvals?
2
Replies
21
Views
1K
f355spider
Charmet37
Pennzoil Euro L
2
Replies
20
Views
3K
andreigbs
C
LL-01 FE 0W-30
2
Replies
22
Views
3K
bigjl
Back
Top