Is it worth adding ZDDP in OPE engines?
- Thread starter NattyBoh
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Has ANYONE here ever seen sludge in OPE engine?
I'd worry about the stuff falling out of suspension and collecting at the bottom of the sump. I'm not sure anyone's ever truly worn one of these engines out due to lack of protection in the lubricant, so I'm not sure I'd add anything to the oil.
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Has ANYONE here ever seen sludge in OPE engine?
Yes. I dealt with a sludged up Kohler 18hp V-twin that was sludged so bad that it wouldn't start. The sludge got so bad, it got into the cylinders through the air intake.
I used 2 gallons of diesel fuel and 3 cans of Amsoil Power Foam to finally clear that thing. Don't even remember how many times I purged those cylinders.
Has ANYONE here ever seen sludge in OPE engine?
Yes. I dealt with a sludged up Kohler 18hp V-twin that was sludged so bad that it wouldn't start. The sludge got so bad, it got into the cylinders through the air intake.
I used 2 gallons of diesel fuel and 3 cans of Amsoil Power Foam to finally clear that thing. Don't even remember how many times I purged those cylinders.
Trough the air intake???
Sometimes plain old engine oil works really well..
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A flathead briggs only lasts about 500hrs then after that it loses compression to where you can't mow thick summer growth grass anymore. All aluminum bore and pistons. The cast iron liner engines, well I haven't worn one of those yet, but my guess would be 2,000hrs before it starts losing compression.
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I use ZDDPLus & moly (dosed appropriately)in the flathead Briggs. The LM Moly completely stopped the oil burning on a 10hp with about 275 hours on it. Currently has about 100 hours more and still no oil burning
I would use ZDDP in the single cylinder Kohler Courage engines as well as synthetic oil and a larger oil filter if your application allows it. That engine tends to put a lot of wear on the outside edges of the cylinder wall and various other parts. The extra couple of ounces from the larger filter couldn't hurt it'll probably keep the oil slightly cooler. A little extra protection and better oil certainly wouldn't hurt.
Originally Posted By: steve20
I use ZDDPLus & moly (dosed appropriately)in the flathead Briggs. The LM Moly completely stopped the oil burning on a 10hp with about 275 hours on it. Currently has about 100 hours more and still no oil burning
MoS2 stopped my mower from puffing a bit of blue smoke upon starting it up. My only fear now is it falling out of suspension since the machine is used twice a month during the grass growing season.
I use ZDDPLus & moly (dosed appropriately)in the flathead Briggs. The LM Moly completely stopped the oil burning on a 10hp with about 275 hours on it. Currently has about 100 hours more and still no oil burning
MoS2 stopped my mower from puffing a bit of blue smoke upon starting it up. My only fear now is it falling out of suspension since the machine is used twice a month during the grass growing season.
Originally Posted By: NattyBoh
Is it worth adding ZDDP additive to small engines used on snowblowers, mowers etc?
The short answer is no.
The long answer is that it is not a good idea to add ZDDP to any oil. Oils formulations are balanced with certain levels of additives for a reason; because that balance works and changing that balance affects more than you may realize.
More rarely equals better; especially with ZDDP which can cause corrosion beyond 1700 ppm and is extremely surface active so it has the potential to displace other additives that perform their own crucial functions. If those additives are being displaced, part of original balanced formula gets tipped and is no longer performing as designed.
Sorry to rant, but top treating finished lubes is something I cannot seem to wrap my head around.
Is it worth adding ZDDP additive to small engines used on snowblowers, mowers etc?
The short answer is no.
The long answer is that it is not a good idea to add ZDDP to any oil. Oils formulations are balanced with certain levels of additives for a reason; because that balance works and changing that balance affects more than you may realize.
More rarely equals better; especially with ZDDP which can cause corrosion beyond 1700 ppm and is extremely surface active so it has the potential to displace other additives that perform their own crucial functions. If those additives are being displaced, part of original balanced formula gets tipped and is no longer performing as designed.
Sorry to rant, but top treating finished lubes is something I cannot seem to wrap my head around.
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
The short answer is no.
The long answer is that it is not a good idea to add ZDDP to any oil. Oils formulations are balanced with certain levels of additives for a reason; because that balance works and changing that balance affects more than you may realize.
More rarely equals better; especially with ZDDP which can cause corrosion beyond 1700 ppm and is extremely surface active so it has the potential to displace other additives that perform their own crucial functions. If those additives are being displaced, part of original balanced formula gets tipped and is no longer performing as designed.
Sorry to rant, but top treating finished lubes is something I cannot seem to wrap my head around.
Do you feel the same way about adding MoS2 (Liqui Moly, for example) to motor oil?
The short answer is no.
The long answer is that it is not a good idea to add ZDDP to any oil. Oils formulations are balanced with certain levels of additives for a reason; because that balance works and changing that balance affects more than you may realize.
More rarely equals better; especially with ZDDP which can cause corrosion beyond 1700 ppm and is extremely surface active so it has the potential to displace other additives that perform their own crucial functions. If those additives are being displaced, part of original balanced formula gets tipped and is no longer performing as designed.
Sorry to rant, but top treating finished lubes is something I cannot seem to wrap my head around.
Do you feel the same way about adding MoS2 (Liqui Moly, for example) to motor oil?
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Do you feel the same way about adding MoS2 (Liqui Moly, for example) to motor oil?
Only in applications that call for it. There are certain manufacturers that say that a slug of moly is good, but this is usually for when they have a multipurpose oil and the moly additive is for when they want that multipurpose oil to go into a transmission or final drive.
I wouldn't want moly solids going around in my engine unless that engine is always running and the oil never has the change to settle. If it is truly the liquid moly additives like a moly carbamate, that would be slightly different.
The difference between MoS2 and things like moly carbamate and ZDDP is that the MoS2 is not a surface active chemical. It is a boundary lubricant so it does not alter the chemistry of the actual oil; it just adds a slug of something else, which can be beneficial in certain applications.
I would still err on the side of, to add an additive without consulting the manufacturer oil the original fluid first is not advisable. I don't suggest anyone top treat into my formulas because I know exactly what extra ZDDP and other surface active chemicals can do to the total performance and I'm not a fan.
Do you feel the same way about adding MoS2 (Liqui Moly, for example) to motor oil?
Only in applications that call for it. There are certain manufacturers that say that a slug of moly is good, but this is usually for when they have a multipurpose oil and the moly additive is for when they want that multipurpose oil to go into a transmission or final drive.
I wouldn't want moly solids going around in my engine unless that engine is always running and the oil never has the change to settle. If it is truly the liquid moly additives like a moly carbamate, that would be slightly different.
The difference between MoS2 and things like moly carbamate and ZDDP is that the MoS2 is not a surface active chemical. It is a boundary lubricant so it does not alter the chemistry of the actual oil; it just adds a slug of something else, which can be beneficial in certain applications.
I would still err on the side of, to add an additive without consulting the manufacturer oil the original fluid first is not advisable. I don't suggest anyone top treat into my formulas because I know exactly what extra ZDDP and other surface active chemicals can do to the total performance and I'm not a fan.
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Do you feel the same way about adding MoS2 (Liqui Moly, for example) to motor oil?
Only in applications that call for it. There are certain manufacturers that say that a slug of moly is good, but this is usually for when they have a multipurpose oil and the moly additive is for when they want that multipurpose oil to go into a transmission or final drive.
I wouldn't want moly solids going around in my engine unless that engine is always running and the oil never has the change to settle. If it is truly the liquid moly additives like a moly carbamate, that would be slightly different.
The difference between MoS2 and things like moly carbamate and ZDDP is that the MoS2 is not a surface active chemical. It is a boundary lubricant so it does not alter the chemistry of the actual oil; it just adds a slug of something else, which can be beneficial in certain applications.
I would still err on the side of, to add an additive without consulting the manufacturer oil the original fluid first is not advisable. I don't suggest anyone top treat into my formulas because I know exactly what extra ZDDP and other surface active chemicals can do to the total performance and I'm not a fan.
OK, thanks for your thoughts.
I looked at the "Chemwatch" sheet for Liqui Moly MoS2 and the only ingredients listed are mineral oil and molbdenum disulfide itself, nothing about any carbamates. I thought that this product was designed to keep the MoS2 in suspension, but maybe that is just advertising or misinformation?
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Do you feel the same way about adding MoS2 (Liqui Moly, for example) to motor oil?
Only in applications that call for it. There are certain manufacturers that say that a slug of moly is good, but this is usually for when they have a multipurpose oil and the moly additive is for when they want that multipurpose oil to go into a transmission or final drive.
I wouldn't want moly solids going around in my engine unless that engine is always running and the oil never has the change to settle. If it is truly the liquid moly additives like a moly carbamate, that would be slightly different.
The difference between MoS2 and things like moly carbamate and ZDDP is that the MoS2 is not a surface active chemical. It is a boundary lubricant so it does not alter the chemistry of the actual oil; it just adds a slug of something else, which can be beneficial in certain applications.
I would still err on the side of, to add an additive without consulting the manufacturer oil the original fluid first is not advisable. I don't suggest anyone top treat into my formulas because I know exactly what extra ZDDP and other surface active chemicals can do to the total performance and I'm not a fan.
OK, thanks for your thoughts.
I looked at the "Chemwatch" sheet for Liqui Moly MoS2 and the only ingredients listed are mineral oil and molbdenum disulfide itself, nothing about any carbamates. I thought that this product was designed to keep the MoS2 in suspension, but maybe that is just advertising or misinformation?
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Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
OK, thanks for your thoughts.
I looked at the "Chemwatch" sheet for Liqui Moly MoS2 and the only ingredients listed are mineral oil and molbdenum disulfide itself, nothing about any carbamates. I thought that this product was designed to keep the MoS2 in suspension, but maybe that is just advertising or misinformation?
I think you are correct about it being suspended solid moly. So like I was saying, in some applications it can be beneficial, but choose wisely.
OK, thanks for your thoughts.
I looked at the "Chemwatch" sheet for Liqui Moly MoS2 and the only ingredients listed are mineral oil and molbdenum disulfide itself, nothing about any carbamates. I thought that this product was designed to keep the MoS2 in suspension, but maybe that is just advertising or misinformation?
I think you are correct about it being suspended solid moly. So like I was saying, in some applications it can be beneficial, but choose wisely.
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