Death of a Toyota U250E transmission

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So a gal that my wife works with wanted me to take a look at her leaking transmission. Evidently her CEL came on, so she took it to her usual mech- he found a TCC related performance code (don't know for sure). He cleared it and sent her on her way. As she was leaving, he noticed a puddle of ATF where she was- he followed her home and checked it for her- wasn't on the stick. After getting a suitable ATF, he dumped 2 qts in and told her that he didn't have time to look at it so I got the call. She drove it 20 odd miles to work the next day, then to her daughter's house where I agreed to pick it up (next town over, about 15+ miles for me). Brought a trailer and 2 quarts of WS ATF just in case. Checked the ATF- none on the stick- dumped in 2 qts which brought up to the middle of the range. Looked under the car and nothing was running out... I said screw it and drove it to the shop so I didn't have to mess around with the trailer. Got there safe and sound. Finally got it in and inspected- appeared to be coming from in between the engine/trans. Hmmm... converter seal? Odd for the mileage. (less than 70k). Checked codes- none. Checked for line pressure- normal. Something nagged me though. The fact that a gallon of fresh ATF had been dumped in but the oil still looked grey ish. (I had a similar experience on a different Toyota while working for another shop). Figured lightening wouldn't strike twice.

Anyway- got the go ahead to replace the seal. Started tearing it down, got the trans out and went to pull the converter out- but it didn't want to come... &*%$#$... I know where this is going! Finally wrestled it out. Hmmm. Copper colored band on the converter snout. Rut rohhh. Popped the seal out there sat the converter bushing, loose as a goose in the pump!

A few pics detailing my misadventures:

Don't mind my redneck engine support rig- I'd rather not spend a few hundred bucks on a engine support when I can rig one for free. I don't need them often enough to justify the cash outlay. Anyway- the subframe is either down or ready to come down at this point.





The converter snout



Converter bushing- note the odd wear pattern on the outside. Of course there should be none.




Severe wear in the pump housing. Look to the left of the center of the input shaft and you'll see a light grey shadow- only it's not a shadow. It's actually a wear groove.




Lastly, the hole in the engine bay left behind





So now I get to quote her some options. Reman or used.
 
I know someone that just had a torque cinverter replaced in a 2010 or 2011 corolla. It was low miles but out of warranty, i thought it was odd because I thought toyota had good transmissions.
 
Originally Posted By: stower17
I know someone that just had a torque cinverter replaced in a 2010 or 2011 corolla. It was low miles but out of warranty, i thought it was odd because I thought toyota had good transmissions.
mine have ridiculous mileage, though they are from an older time.

corollas
98 w/ 280k
99 w/ 360k
00 w/ 130k
01 w/ 140k
01 w/ 280k
03 w/ 90k
celicas
00 w/ 140k
01 w/ 150k
01 w/ 220k
01 w/ 235k
02 w/ 188k
camry
06 w/ 200k

They all shift and run perfectly, must be the new stuff that is of poor build?

customer's 07 matrix (1zzfe on my 73rd rebuild by now) the piston/rod blew a hole onto the bottom stiffening case. This did almost no damage to the cylinder walls and nothing to the cylinder head, the crankshaft can be remanufactured by a re-builder. How in the world the piston/rod completely disintegrate with still 4 quarts of oil in it, is beyond me, must be bad build quality, I can't think of anything else myself.
 
It's been my experience that transmission input/pump seals and engine rear main seals are usually just the tip of the iceberg. Rarely fail in a vacuum.
 
So does this result from the TC not being aligned properly in the bell housing during assembly? I would think that would be carefully tested as is done when one is rebuilt. Or what do you think is the cause?
 
Originally Posted By: Oro_O
So does this result from the TC not being aligned properly in the bell housing during assembly? I would think that would be carefully tested as is done when one is rebuilt. Or what do you think is the cause?


My money is on bad main bearing/thrust bearing allowing crank to walk
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
this was when Toyota built cars that ran forever...lol.... Not anymore now they are not so great like in the years you mentioned


I agree! I don't think I have heard of Toyota transmission (or engine!) failure - until now!

Booooo, Toyota.
mad.gif
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
this was when Toyota built cars that ran forever...lol.... Not anymore now they are not so great like in the years you mentioned


+1000
 
Originally Posted By: Brasileno
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
this was when Toyota built cars that ran forever...lol.... Not anymore now they are not so great like in the years you mentioned


I agree! I don't think I have heard of Toyota transmission (or engine!) failure - until now!

Booooo, Toyota.
mad.gif



Is there any manufacturer that doesn't occasionally have a failure? It's a mechanical device, and on occasion one will fail early. There is also no information as to the maintenance history; it well may be due to abuse or neglect rather than poor initial quality. With the limited amount of information there simply isn't any reason to jump to conclusions.
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
this was when Toyota built cars that ran forever...lol.... Not anymore now they are not so great like in the years you mentioned


No. I would bet that statistically Toyota/Lexus are better than they've ever been. They are well aware of failure rates and practice continuous improvement.
Corolla still on top according to JD Powers.
 
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Come on guys- this wasn't meant to be a bashing thread. Just passing on some info and pics to those who may be interested.
 
Originally Posted By: Brasileno
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
this was when Toyota built cars that ran forever...lol.... Not anymore now they are not so great like in the years you mentioned


I agree! I don't think I have heard of Toyota transmission (or engine!) failure - until now!

Booooo, Toyota.
mad.gif

Then you are unaware of the transmission failures in Gen 3 V6 Camrys, which ended with the Gen 4. Most were caused by failure to change the fluid as required.
 
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Possibly the bushing was not staked after being installed into the bore? not sure how common that procedure is on trans bushings though.
 
So after some conversing, they decided to go with a used unit that had 50k miles. I called the yard up and got it ordered. Well later in the day they called back and told me they talked it over- wanted to go with a re-man.

I'll be putting in a trans from Certified Transmission out of Omaha. They elected to go with the 12mo/12k mile warranty. For $400.00 more they could have gotten the 3yr/100k warranty, but the thing is- the unit is exactly the same. So all $400.00 buys is warranty.

Will update when I have more.
 
what is the model toyota and mileage? no one has said. this being a womans car my money is failure from lack of maintance.
 
It's in a Camry and mileage is 130k ish miles. In my initial post, I had said that it had around or less than 70k, but after looking at the oil change sticker on the windshield, I saw they had her coming back somewhere in the 130k range.

I talked a rep with Certified Transmission about this issue and noted that I've seen it before- he said that it's not uncommon.

If you look at the bushing, it looks like only part of it spun in the pump housing, so I wondering if it was ever correctly fit to begin with.
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Come on guys- this wasn't meant to be a bashing thread. Just passing on some info and pics to those who may be interested.


What model year?
 
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