What Additive/s make an Oil Long Lived (eg. BMW LL
- Thread starter KevinV
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I have no doubt that answer is a closely guarded secret
No magic ingredient.
Also, cars that can go long OCI usually have large oil capacities (e.g., 7 qt vs. 5 qt), and will have huge synthetic oil filters (my BMW's filter element is synthetic and about 3x the area of a normal car's oil filter).
- Stable base oil (like PAO, Group III) (won't show in VOA);
- stable VII (like OCP but not PMA) (won't show in VOA);
- lots of primary antioxidant (amines/phenols) (won't show in VOA);
- lots of secondary antioxidant (ZDDP in secondary role) (will show in VOA);
- lots of detergent (will show in VOA);
- lots of dispersant (won't show in VOA);
- reduced or complete absence of stuff that could interfere with detergent (like moly).
Also, cars that can go long OCI usually have large oil capacities (e.g., 7 qt vs. 5 qt), and will have huge synthetic oil filters (my BMW's filter element is synthetic and about 3x the area of a normal car's oil filter).
LL01 is baselined on acea a3/b4, so you need a strong enough add pack / high tbn to last a long oci and base oil with hths of at least 3.5 cP.
And Moly lots of it
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Originally Posted By: Ram01
And Moly lots of it
?
Most of them don't have lots of Moly.
And Moly lots of it
?
Most of them don't have lots of Moly.
It's all in the base oil. That's why group III synthetics last longer than conventional oil and group IV last longer than Group III and why the combination of Grour IV and V usually last longer than Group IV alone. This is why M1 EP lasts for 15,000 miles while the regular M1 is not recommended for 15,000 miles. Usually the add packs are similar between regular M1 and M1EP.
While the synthetic base stocks help, not that E7, E9 HDEOs, for instance, are long drain oils, but not necessarily synthetic. Of course, the synthetic versions can go even longer, yet.
Originally Posted By: Skid
No magic ingredient.
Also, cars that can go long OCI usually have large oil capacities (e.g., 7 qt vs. 5 qt), and will have huge synthetic oil filters (my BMW's filter element is synthetic and about 3x the area of a normal car's oil filter).
I like your style! Good answer, though I would have just said the basestocks used (more Group4/5 etc.) is the main difference. Seems like everything else you mentioned is common to about any motor oil.
Also, why do you think your bimmer oil filter is synthetic? OEM bimmer oil filters are mostly paper element, and I don't think they even have much glass fiber blended in, if any. (Fram Ultra is one of the only synthetic oil filters for those applications I've ever heard of, aftermarket.)
No magic ingredient.
- Stable base oil (like PAO, Group III) (won't show in VOA);
- stable VII (like OCP but not PMA) (won't show in VOA);
- lots of primary antioxidant (amines/phenols) (won't show in VOA);
- lots of secondary antioxidant (ZDDP in secondary role) (will show in VOA);
- lots of detergent (will show in VOA);
- lots of dispersant (won't show in VOA);
- reduced or complete absence of stuff that could interfere with detergent (like moly).
Also, cars that can go long OCI usually have large oil capacities (e.g., 7 qt vs. 5 qt), and will have huge synthetic oil filters (my BMW's filter element is synthetic and about 3x the area of a normal car's oil filter).
I like your style! Good answer, though I would have just said the basestocks used (more Group4/5 etc.) is the main difference. Seems like everything else you mentioned is common to about any motor oil.
Also, why do you think your bimmer oil filter is synthetic? OEM bimmer oil filters are mostly paper element, and I don't think they even have much glass fiber blended in, if any. (Fram Ultra is one of the only synthetic oil filters for those applications I've ever heard of, aftermarket.)
The synthetic oil filters on BMWs is a more recent development. My '02 calls for LL-01 oil, but does not utilize a synthetic oil filter.
Originally Posted By: KevinV
Here is a pretty technical question for the chemists among us. I wonder which additive or additives make an oil a long lived oil like BMW LL-01 oils (Castrol 0-W40 or Mobil 1 0-W40)?
I'd also add that it's one that has been put through the ringer of BMW engine tests - they have their own aeration, performance, and fuel economy tests which are over and above the ACEA tests. Funny how we put GM through the ringer on Dexos1 but seem to give MB, BMW and VW a pass on their registration processes.
Here is a pretty technical question for the chemists among us. I wonder which additive or additives make an oil a long lived oil like BMW LL-01 oils (Castrol 0-W40 or Mobil 1 0-W40)?
I'd also add that it's one that has been put through the ringer of BMW engine tests - they have their own aeration, performance, and fuel economy tests which are over and above the ACEA tests. Funny how we put GM through the ringer on Dexos1 but seem to give MB, BMW and VW a pass on their registration processes.
Originally Posted By: Solarent
Funny how we put GM through the ringer on Dexos1 but seem to give MB, BMW and VW a pass on their registration processes.
That's because GM wants to get paid royalty fee for every quart/liter of oil sold carrying the Dexos1 logo.
With the BMW spec, it's more of a one time fee to get the oil tested.
Or is this no longer the case?
Funny how we put GM through the ringer on Dexos1 but seem to give MB, BMW and VW a pass on their registration processes.
That's because GM wants to get paid royalty fee for every quart/liter of oil sold carrying the Dexos1 logo.
With the BMW spec, it's more of a one time fee to get the oil tested.
Or is this no longer the case?
Originally Posted By: Solarent
Its still not cheap though.
Yeah, I have no idea on the cost involved to get an oil tested against BMW LL-01 spec.
And what about Dexos1? Isn't there also an initial cost to get the oil tested for Dexos1 compliance? And that's in addition to the volume-based royalty fees afterwards.
Its still not cheap though.
Yeah, I have no idea on the cost involved to get an oil tested against BMW LL-01 spec.
And what about Dexos1? Isn't there also an initial cost to get the oil tested for Dexos1 compliance? And that's in addition to the volume-based royalty fees afterwards.
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