BMW M3 - Alternative to OE 0W-30 LL FE ?

[ringmaster]

2015+ BMW M3 / M4 with 3.0L TT in-line six (S55)

The factory recommendation is BMW Twin Power Turbo Longlife-01 FE SAE 0W-30 but I can't find it anywhere. The owner's manual says to substitute 5W-30 or 0W-40 and my local BMW dealer does have M TwinPower Turbo Longlife-01 SAE 0W-40 which is what they use in their service dept for all M3/M4 oil changes. I haven't been able to find a spec sheet for the BMW oils so I can't compare the 0W-30 and 0W-40.

My M3 will see lots of sub-zero cold starts so I really want to stick with a 0W-30 oil but I am not overly concerned about the oil being BMW-approved and I don't care about the "FE" fuel efficiency designation. One other consideration would be an oil that won't add to premature carbon build up (direct injection). My max OCI (OCD !) will be 6k miles or one year.

Any recommendations?

I was looking at the following 0W-30 oils:
-Castrol Edge
-Motul 8100 X-LITE
-TITAN SUPERSYN LONGLIFE PLUS SAE
-TITAN SUPERSYN SAE
-Total Quartz Energy 9000

 

[barkingspider]

You may have to look online for that 0w30.

 

[RooflessVW]

I would use the M oil that your dealer has in stock. Your first few changes should be covered under warranty anyhow.

 

[ringmaster]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I would use the M oil that your dealer has in stock.


Why? The under hood sticker and the owner's manual specify 0W-30 for this engine and I operate the car in a cold climate with sub-zero starts. Without knowing the specs of the two oils why would I want to move to a heavier weight oil?

 

[bvance554]

Originally Posted By: ringmaster
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I would use the M oil that your dealer has in stock.


Why? The under hood sticker and the owner's manual specify 0W-30 for this engine and I operate the car in a cold climate with sub-zero starts. Without knowing the specs of the two oils why would I want to move to a heavier weight oil?


Because the owners manual suggests it as a substitution, and also the dealership is using it to service your car. I'm not into oil statistics but even if there were a difference in viscosity at say -10, it won't be enough for your engine to notice.

 

[BlackBeard]

Use a Mobil 1 0-30 or the pennzoil platinum Euro l

 

[umungus1122]

Is Mobil 1 0w-40 on the approved list? What about BMW 5w-30? You sure as Sh** don't need to use that one particular oil that isn't even at the dealership. If BMW demands you need that oil, they must provide it to you at no charge.

 

[RooflessVW]

You could also have the service department order the BMW 0w30 for you. In my experience BMW branded oils are not more expensive than normal oils, the exception being Castrol TWS.

I am also concerned with BMW specifying such a thin oil in an M car. Their previous inability to properly design rod bearings and their bandaid use of TWS would have me running the thickest approved oil I could. You car will be fine during cold starts with the M 0w40.

 

[901Memphis]

Mobil 1 0W40

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: ringmaster
2015+ BMW M3 / M4 with 3.0L TT in-line six (S55)

Daily commuter? Broken in yet? How often do you go WOT/redline it?

Originally Posted By: ringmaster
My M3 will see lots of sub-zero cold starts so I really want to stick with a 0W-30 oil but I am not overly concerned about the oil being BMW-approved and I don't care about the "FE" fuel efficiency designation. One other consideration would be an oil that won't add to premature carbon build up (direct injection). My max OCI (OCD !) will be 6k miles or one year.

The 0w-40 will still be pumpable at or below -30º C. I wouldn't worry about that.

Do you like your warranty? Consider that before you use a non-approved oil.



If it were me, I'd either have the dealership order the 0w-30 as rooflessVW suggested, or just run the 0w-40.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ringmaster
2015+ BMW M3 / M4 with 3.0L TT in-line six (S55)

The factory recommendation is BMW Twin Power Turbo Longlife-01 FE SAE 0W-30 but I can't find it anywhere. The owner's manual says to substitute 5W-30 or 0W-40 and my local BMW dealer does have M TwinPower Turbo Longlife-01 SAE 0W-40 which is what they use in their service dept for all M3/M4 oil changes. I haven't been able to find a spec sheet for the BMW oils so I can't compare the 0W-30 and 0W-40.

My M3 will see lots of sub-zero cold starts so I really want to stick with a 0W-30 oil but I am not overly concerned about the oil being BMW-approved and I don't care about the "FE" fuel efficiency designation. One other consideration would be an oil that won't add to premature carbon build up (direct injection). My max OCI (OCD !) will be 6k miles or one year.

Any recommendations?

I was looking at the following 0W-30 oils:
-Castrol Edge
-Motul 8100 X-LITE
-TITAN SUPERSYN LONGLIFE PLUS SAE
-TITAN SUPERSYN SAE
-Total Quartz Energy 9000


I just downloaded the owners manual for the 2015 M3, it states:

Originally Posted By: BMW

Engine oil types to add
Hints
No oil additives
Oil additives may lead to engine damage.◀

Viscosity grades for engine oils
When selecting an engine oil, ensure that
the engine oil belongs to the viscosity grade
SAE 0W-40, or malfunctions or engine damage may occur.

As an alternative, you can also use motor oils
with a viscosity grade of SAE 0W-30.
The engine oil quality is critical for the life of
the engine.


Then:

Originally Posted By: BMW

Suitable engine oil types
You can add engine oils that meet the following oil rating standards:

Oil rating:
BMW Longlife-01.
BMW Longlife-01 FE.


It would appear the logical choice is an approved (LL-01) 0w-40 like Mobil 1 0w-40 or Castrol 0w-40.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: ringmaster
My M3 will see lots of sub-zero cold starts so I really want to stick with a 0W-30 oil but I am not overly concerned about the oil being BMW-approved and I don't care about the "FE" fuel efficiency designation. One other consideration would be an oil that won't add to premature carbon build up (direct injection). My max OCI (OCD !) will be 6k miles or one year.

Any recommendations?

I was looking at the following 0W-30 oils:
-Castrol Edge
-Motul 8100 X-LITE
-TITAN SUPERSYN LONGLIFE PLUS SAE
-TITAN SUPERSYN SAE
-Total Quartz Energy 9000


You can easily stick to 0w-30 like you say. Better cold starts. You could change it to Castrol Edge 0w-30 now, and change to Castrol Edge 0w-40 March 7th for the summer and half the fall. Total Quartz and Redline also have the 0w-30/0w-40 pairs for winter and summer too, all good choices. Amazon.com or Canadian Tire has most, other sources maybe.
Changing over to a 0w-40 in the summer is probably only necessary if you're going to drive the car hard for long periods of time where the oil temperature might get a bit elevated. Everyday driving with just occasional minute-long hard driving means you can use a 0w-30 all year around.

 

[ringmaster]

I asked my BMW dealer to order the factory 0W-30 oil but they said BMW doesn't have it available at the moment.

These photos show the under hood sticker on my 2016 M3 and the owner's manual info so there is no doubt in my mind that BMW thinks 0W-30 is the preferred oil, although I admit this might have something to do with EPA ratings. Still, I find it hard to believe that a 0W-40 would be the right choice for sub-zero cold starts when I can use 0W-30.

BMW did have rod bearing issues with certain M model engines but there is no reason to assume that same problem exists with the S55 since it doesn't share any parts or dimensions with the older S54 and S65 engines. That said, some S65 owners (V8 M3) have reported better UOA moving to a lighter 0W-40 vs the factory recommended 10W-60...but I digress.

My engine is still in the break-in period so for the next three months of winter it won't see a lot of WOT, high-RPM use. Come summer time it will see track time so moving to 0W-40 might make sense.

Knowing that I am really set on using 0W-30 for my next 'winter oil change' is there one oil that stands out from the rest? Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 might be another good option if I can find it.

 

[edyvw]

If you like your warranty, stick to what BMW recommends. If new M3 is compatible with BMW LL-01 specification, then you really do not have an issue at all. Just go pick up Castrol 0W30 or Castrol 0W40 or Mobil1 0W40. All of those will work fine, but if you push your car hard, I would go definitely with 0W40.
I used exhaustively both Castrol 0W30, 0W40 and Mobil1 0W40. In really cold weather Castrol proved better choice then M1 0W40. I was using my cars in sub zero temperatures and Castrol would never create rattling on start unlike M1 0W40. SO castrol might be bit better when it comes to cold starting, but both oils will provide ultimate protection.
If BMW LL-01 is not acceptable for M TT engine, then you need to talk to dealership to provide what is necessary. However, after warranty period I think moving to LL-01 0W40 would be better choice.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: ringmaster
I asked my BMW dealer to order the factory 0W-30 oil but they said BMW doesn't have it available at the moment.

These photos show the under hood sticker on my 2016 M3 and the owner's manual info so there is no doubt in my mind that BMW thinks 0W-30 is the preferred oil, although I admit this might have something to do with EPA ratings. Still, I find it hard to believe that a 0W-40 would be the right choice for sub-zero cold starts when I can use 0W-30.

BMW did have rod bearing issues with certain M model engines but there is no reason to assume that same problem exists with the S55 since it doesn't share any parts or dimensions with the older S54 and S65 engines. That said, some S65 owners (V8 M3) have reported better UOA moving to a lighter 0W-40 vs the factory recommended 10W-60...but I digress.

My engine is still in the break-in period so for the next three months of winter it won't see a lot of WOT, high-RPM use. Come summer time it will see track time so moving to 0W-40 might make sense.

Knowing that I am really set on using 0W-30 for my next 'winter oil change' is there one oil that stands out from the rest? Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 might be another good option if I can find it.

DO NOT USE Mobil1 0W30 ESP!!!
1. You are under warranty and that oil IS NOT approved for BMW gasoline engines!
2. That oil is Low-SAPS oil. Your engine is DI engine which means you will have fuel dilution which means that sulfur rich North Americn gas will deplete very fast TBN in that oil. Since that oil is Low-SAPS there is no much TBN to start with.
3. If you are stuck on 0W30 oil, find Castrol 0W30 (former GC now BC). I would say it is same recipe as 0W40 when it comes to base and additives. It is proven oil and will work well, and has really good pour pint (-56c).

 

[kschachn]

Any 0W-30 that meets LL-01 is going to be quite similar to a 0W-40 that also meets the same requirement. The grade is pretty irrelevant, why the focus on it? I'm confused.

 

[ringmaster]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

DO NOT USE Mobil1 0W30 ESP!!!
1. You are under warranty and that oil IS NOT approved for BMW gasoline engines!
2. That oil is Low-SAPS oil. Your engine is DI engine which means you will have fuel dilution which means that sulfur rich North Americn gas will deplete very fast TBN in that oil. Since that oil is Low-SAPS there is no much TBN to start with.
3. If you are stuck on 0W30 oil, find Castrol 0W30 (former GC now BC). I would say it is same recipe as 0W40 when it comes to base and additives. It is proven oil and will work well, and has really good pour pint (-56c).


That all sounds like solid advice. I don't know much about the M1 ESP line but it sounds like the wrong product for this application.

It would be so helpful to know the specs for the BMW M TwinPower Turbo 0W-40 but they are probably kept secret.

At this point I will probably look around for Castrol EDGE with Fluid Titanium 0W-30 and switch to the BMW 0W-40 for summer use.

**Edit - I just looked at the PDS for the Castrol 0W-30 and 0W-40 Edge Titanium and the 0W-40 specs almost look superior unless there are things going on in the background that I don't understand?!?!


Castrol EDGE 0W-30
Density @ 15C, Relative ASTM D4052 g/ml 0.842
Viscosity, Kinematic 100C ASTM D445 mm²/s 12.3
Viscosity, CCS -35C (0W) ASTM D5293 mPa.s (cP) 5800
Viscosity, Kinematic 40C ASTM D445 mm²/s 72
Viscosity Index ASTM D2270 None 169
Pour Point ASTM D97 °C -51
Flash Point, PMCC ASTM D93 °C 200
Ash, Sulphated ASTM D874 % wt 0.8
BMW Longlife-04


Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4
Density @ 15C, Relative ASTM D4052 g/ml 0.8416
Viscosity, Kinematic 100C ASTM D445 mm²/s 13.1
Viscosity, CCS -35C (0W) ASTM D5293 mPa.s (cP) 5950
Viscosity, Kinematic 40C ASTM D445 mm²/s 79
Viscosity Index ASTM D2270 None 168
Pour Point ASTM D97 °C -60
Flash Point, PMCC ASTM D93 °C 211
Ash, Sulphated ASTM D874 % wt 1.15
BMW Longlife-01

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: ringmaster
Originally Posted By: edyvw

DO NOT USE Mobil1 0W30 ESP!!!
1. You are under warranty and that oil IS NOT approved for BMW gasoline engines!
2. That oil is Low-SAPS oil. Your engine is DI engine which means you will have fuel dilution which means that sulfur rich North Americn gas will deplete very fast TBN in that oil. Since that oil is Low-SAPS there is no much TBN to start with.
3. If you are stuck on 0W30 oil, find Castrol 0W30 (former GC now BC). I would say it is same recipe as 0W40 when it comes to base and additives. It is proven oil and will work well, and has really good pour pint (-56c).


That all sounds like solid advice. I don't know much about the M1 ESP line but it sounds like the wrong product for this application.

It would be so helpful to know the specs for the BMW M TwinPower Turbo 0W-40 but they are probably kept secret.

At this point I will probably look around for Castrol EDGE with Fluid Titanium 0W-30 and switch to the BMW 0W-40 for summer use.

**Edit - I just looked at the PDS for the Castrol 0W-30 and 0W-40 Edge Titanium and the 0W-40 specs almost look superior unless there are things going on in the background that I don't understand?!?!


Castrol EDGE 0W-30
Density @ 15C, Relative ASTM D4052 g/ml 0.842
Viscosity, Kinematic 100C ASTM D445 mm²/s 12.3
Viscosity, CCS -35C (0W) ASTM D5293 mPa.s (cP) 5800
Viscosity, Kinematic 40C ASTM D445 mm²/s 72
Viscosity Index ASTM D2270 None 169
Pour Point ASTM D97 °C -51
Flash Point, PMCC ASTM D93 °C 200
Ash, Sulphated ASTM D874 % wt 0.8
BMW Longlife-04


Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4
Density @ 15C, Relative ASTM D4052 g/ml 0.8416
Viscosity, Kinematic 100C ASTM D445 mm²/s 13.1
Viscosity, CCS -35C (0W) ASTM D5293 mPa.s (cP) 5950
Viscosity, Kinematic 40C ASTM D445 mm²/s 79
Viscosity Index ASTM D2270 None 168
Pour Point ASTM D97 °C -60
Flash Point, PMCC ASTM D93 °C 211
Ash, Sulphated ASTM D874 % wt 1.15
BMW Longlife-01

I think you are looking at wrong 0W30.
This is how BMW specs work:
BMW LL-01-Gasoline engines
BMW LL-04-Diesel engines.

So 0W30 that you are looking is available in the EU. I would love for us here to have that oil, but unfortunately we do not (for my diesel BMW).
The 0W30 I was talking about is this:
Castrol 0W30 BMW LL-01
Amazon page of 0W30 product

As you can see it is almost identical to 0W40, except 0W40 has better HTHS (3.7cp) compare to 0W30 (3.58cp).
0W30 will serve you well in the winter as well as 0W40. Difference is that 0W30 will reach operating temperature bit faster, but nothing dramatically faster.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Any 0W-30 that meets LL-01 is going to be quite similar to a 0W-40 that also meets the same requirement. The grade is pretty irrelevant, why the focus on it? I'm confused.

0W40 has better HTHS. 3.7cp compare to 3.58cp in 0W30.
Also, 0W40 comes in 5qt jugs, and it is much cheaper since it is pricing war between Mobil1 and Castrol.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
0W40 has better HTHS. 3.7cp compare to 3.58cp in 0W30.
Also, 0W40 comes in 5qt jugs, and it is much cheaper since it is pricing war between Mobil1 and Castrol.


Agreed, I can't see any valid reason not to use M1 0W-40 in any LL-01 application.