Bypass Filter Recommendations Ecoboost Engine

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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
But BP filters ONLY get to see about 10% of the total flow, so the effect they provide is often very misunderstood.
Only 10% at a time--right? BP filters will filter 100% of the oil at some point, else a video like the one below could not clearly show this--yes, I do realize it was done with "graphic representation" in mind, but the point is the same:
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Nearly all soot starts out sub-micronic. I agree with that.

Compared to diesels, its been stated by researchers that gasoline DI soot particles are smaller. It would be hard to get the
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Even a particle that is 5-10um in size only has a one-in-ten chance to go to the BP filter, which means that it is 90% likely to head to the engine as if the BP filter never existed in the system in the first place.

A bypass filter does eventually get to all the particles. With 10% of the flow diverted to the bypass filter, natural mixing of the total flow over time means its 100% likely the particle will get caught on subsequent passes round and round.
 
If GDI soot is even smaller than diesel soot (and I have no basis to debate this pro or con at this point so I accept it at face value), then I'm confident a BP element simply isn't going to have any effect whatsoever in a normal OCI. The add-pack is going to make it's efforts to keep the agglomeration from happening, and so the soot is going to stay small during the moderate OCI. Hence the BP element will not be able to remove them with any reasonable efficiency; it just isn't going to catch stuff that small.

Yes, given that the oil pump will send mega gallons of oil around the system during an OCI, the BP element will eventually see just about every particle. Some will be large enough to be caught, some will not.

Two things have to be present for a BP filter to be effective:
1) the particle has to make 9 trips through the engine before ever being sent to the BP element
2) the particle has to be large enough to be caught by the element



Again - BP systems are great tools, but ONLY when you understand not only their benefits, but limitations. The recommendation I objected to was for short OCIs and BP and syns. The moderate OCIs will keep the soot small; so small they cannot be typically caught by the BP element. Hence - Just a total waste of money.
 
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Two things have to be present for a BP filter to be effective:
1) the particle has to make 9 trips through the engine before ever being sent to the BP element
2) the particle has to be large enough to be caught by the element.
I was not going to belabor the point, but as you are so fond of doing and driving things down to the finest of details, I will step into the fray.

I fully agree with your item 2; if the particle is not large enough to be caught by the filter, it will not be captured no matter how many passes it experiences through the bypass filter.

However, for your item 1, your thought is the worst case scenario in that not EACH and EVERY particle will go through the engine the full nine times before being sent to the BP system--some, and without performing a statistical calculation I would hazard to guess, most will see the BP system long before the 9th pass. The nine pass "rule" is an absolute in that it CAN take 9 passes to capture the particle, but it MAY not take that many. In addition, stating that it takes 9 passes makes it seem like we are talking about a very long time for this to happen whereas in reality are we not simply talking about minutes? I understand that 9 passes is 9 passes, but I want to clarify the "perception" about the length of time.

Please give me your thoughts.
 
The typical BP system only samples approximately 10% of the total flow rate of the FF. That 10% value is the average of flow. Some will see less; some more. That is an average.

The "average" particle will go around the system 9 times before being caught (if it's large enough) in the BP. Some particles will experience a bit of misfortune and immediately go to the BP on the first or second trip, but some may actually make 13 or 20 trips into the FF before ever being sent to the BP. The "sample rate" of 10% is an average; hence statistically there are 9 trips to the FF before one to the BP.


It's not unlike the topic of conversation about fluid exchanges, such as in trannies. If you have a total of 8 qrts in the system, and change 4 qrts the first time, you get 50% out. The next OCI gets out 50% of the fluid, but half of that second OCI is "new" oil and half is "old" oil, so the net result is 25% net old fluid left. Again, and again, and again. It takes a LONG time before you get a thorough exchange. But at some practical point, you reach a law of diminishing return. At some point, we even have to engage the concept of the law of entropy; things that tend towards one side of a spectrum have the ever increasing opportunity to reverse, given a truly abstract selection methodology. (Note - there is chemical entropy, mathematical entropy, thermal entropy ... and they all have a slightly different meaning but convey a similar concept).


The filtration concept is similar. The BP system only samples the total FF flow rate, and because there is no control over the exact path of each particle, it's just a law of average math application.


The upside to BP is that the pump will produces about a bazillion cycles of the total system capacity over an OCI (OK - I do exaggerate here a bit, but you get the point). So eventually it's highly likely that any particle, sized large enough to be caught, eventually will be. The larger the particle, the more like it is to be caught.


This is a conditional statement where TWO criteria must be met simultaneously to be effective.
1) the particle must sent into the BP path
2) the particle must be large enough to be caught in the BP element
If the particle is smaller than the effective BP sizing, the particle may see literally thousands of trips through the pump, and therefore 10% of those thousands (represented as hundreds) of trips to the BP. But if it ain't large enough to be caught, it's moot! If the particle is large enough to be caught by the BP, it has (on average) a 90% chance of going to the engine first, based upon sampling flow rate.

We almost have to sub-divide this topic into three discussions:
a) what happens to a particle that is too small for any filter? A near infinite ticket to ride around the engine. The upside is that such a small particle is unlikely to do much damage
b) what happens to a particle that is large enough to be caught by the BP, but not be caught by the FF? 9 trips to the engine before 1 trip to the BP, on average (some more; some less) These can do damage
c) what happens to particles large enough to be caught by the FF? A 100% chance of being stopped because 90% of the time they are stopped by the FF and 10% of the time they are stopped by the BP (anything large enough to be stopped by the FF is also large enough to be stopped by the BP ...) These would assuredly do damage, but are also assuredly going to be caught before they do so.

But the main point to understand here is that soot particles simply don't get that big that fast. Putting a BP system on a piece of equipment and then doing "normal" OCIs, isn't going to produce any significant shift in wear-rates, or assure wear reduction. The soot particles are too small to do much damage and also too small to be caught even by the BP element, because they haven't had time to overwhelm the anti-agglomerates yet. Regardless how many times they may or may not enter the BP filter, they aren't big enough to be selected with any decent efficiency rate.

As you state, I sometimes like to drive it down almost too far for easy consumption, but I'll try to summarize:
the average sample rate of 10% means just that; it's an average particle expectation. Speaking only to the concept of particles in class "b" as defined above, some will take more trips before being caught in the BP; some less. The average is 10% based upon the selected flow rate. Most BP systems portion off about 10% of the flow that the FF element sees, therefore they only have a 10% chance to catch something relative to the total system flow. For every particle that only went 5x before being sent to the BP, there was one that went well more than 10x, on average. This is the effect of random sampling and particle sizing.


BP systems are a fantastic tool when you leave the oil in the sump for a long time, especially on a large capacity system. They can reward you with a very useful fluid suitable for fiscal savings via reduced quantity of OCIs. But used in small sump capacities, and with short OCIs, BP filters are a complete and total waste of time/effort/cash. Hence my stalwart objection to the aforementioned recommendation by GDubFlue and others who think BP systems are the right answer for all things ...
 
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