Alfa Romeo 4C: ACEA C3?

[SR5]

Yep I agree
C3 has a min TBN of 6, but is often around 7 in practice
A3/B3 has a min TBN of 8, and is often in the 8 to 9 region
A3/B4 has a min TBN of 10, and is often in the 10.5 to 11.5 region.

That's why I tend to go for A3/B4 if I want a high starting TBN.

In Oz most mineral oils tend to be A3/B3, while the synthetics tend to be A3/B4.

Right now I have a bit of a stash of Castrol Edge 5W-30 A3/B4 and Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 A3/B4. Both are MB 229.5 & BMW LL-01.

 

[chrisri]

Same here. Not much A3/B3 oils on the market, and most are on the lower end of the quality / price scale. Nothing wrong with it for older cars, but there's not much price wise between them and A3/B4 oils. That is probably the reason they lost it share even with owners of older vehicles.

Not suitable for a common rail on a continent full of them is another one.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Edy, I think SR5 was referring to a similar starting TBN in both ILSAC and C3 lubricants, not other properties of these two oils that are vastly different.


Sorry for any confusion, yes chrisri is correct, I was referring to starting TBN only (the main point of difference between A3 and C3) and saying that I have seen some C3 oils with starting TBN similar to some ILSAC oils.

Yes, there is a BIG difference between ACEA C3 oils and ILSAC GF-5 oils, such as the 3.5 min HTHS for the C3 and the stay-in-grade shear stability test. The C3, A3/B3 & A3/B4 Euro oils are significantly more robust that any ILSAC oil.

The OP should only consider a C3 or A3 oil for his Alfa.

For the record, I have never used an ILSAC oil in my life. I am strictly an A3/B4 type of guy, but happy to consider a C3 for the right application. Maybe one day I'll try one of those light A5/B5 oils ...... but not today.

Australia uses the ACEA standards quite a lot, many regular oils here like Castrol GTX 15W40 are A3/B3. The 15W40 grade is probably the most popular grade in Australia, we put it in everything.

Sorry for any confusion.

Ok, my mistake, but it sounded like ILSAC could be replacement, and in this case that would be big no.

 

[marco246]

I, too, have an Alfa 4C which is going to need an oil change in a couple of months. The owner's manual (2015 FCA US LLC, third edition) requires an SAE 5W-40 full-synthetic engine oil that is API certified and meets the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-12991. There is nothing stated about industry specification ACEA C3.

I have bought a case of Pennzoil Platinum Euro PP 5W-40 full synthetic which ought to do the job. It exceeds the Chrysler spec noted above as well as API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 as well as Ferrari and Maserati specs and many others.

I apologize for coming in late on this issue, but I don't see the need to look around for an ACEA C3 oil at all.

Best Holiday Wishes to All!

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Edy, I think SR5 was referring to a similar starting TBN in both ILSAC and C3 lubricants, not other properties of these two oils that are vastly different.


Sorry for any confusion, yes chrisri is correct, I was referring to starting TBN only (the main point of difference between A3 and C3) and saying that I have seen some C3 oils with starting TBN similar to some ILSAC oils.

Yes, there is a BIG difference between ACEA C3 oils and ILSAC GF-5 oils, such as the 3.5 min HTHS for the C3 and the stay-in-grade shear stability test. The C3, A3/B3 & A3/B4 Euro oils are significantly more robust that any ILSAC oil.

The OP should only consider a C3 or A3 oil for his Alfa.

For the record, I have never used an ILSAC oil in my life. I am strictly an A3/B4 type of guy, but happy to consider a C3 for the right application. Maybe one day I'll try one of those light A5/B5 oils ...... but not today.

Australia uses the ACEA standards quite a lot, many regular oils here like Castrol GTX 15W40 are A3/B3. The 15W40 grade is probably the most popular grade in Australia, we put it in everything.

Sorry for any confusion.

Ok, my mistake, but it sounded like ILSAC could be replacement, and in this case that would be big no.


A good point to make clear mate, I would hate for a Alfa owner to read my post the wrong way.
Cheers

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: marco246
I, too, have an Alfa 4C which is going to need an oil change in a couple of months. The owner's manual (2015 FCA US LLC, third edition) requires an SAE 5W-40 full-synthetic engine oil that is API certified and meets the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-12991. There is nothing stated about industry specification ACEA C3.

I have bought a case of Pennzoil Platinum Euro PP 5W-40 full synthetic which ought to do the job. It exceeds the Chrysler spec noted above as well as API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 as well as Ferrari and Maserati specs and many others.

I apologize for coming in late on this issue, but I don't see the need to look around for an ACEA C3 oil at all.

Best Holiday Wishes to All!


Interesting .... and you picked a good oil as it covers all bases. Over here it would be called Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40, and I like it a lot.

To be honest it's hard to find a bad, full synthetic 5W-40. The 5W-40 viscosity is not an ILSAC grade so it should have a good HTHS and being a full synthetic gives good thermal and oxidation stability.

I'm not familiar with the MS-12991 spec., but most good oils have multiple specs, and you have a great oil for your application. ( SN, A3/B4, MS-12991, MB 229.5, etc).

Good to have the up to date spec for this car, looks like A3 is fine.

Have fun in a great car.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: marco246
I, too, have an Alfa 4C which is going to need an oil change in a couple of months. The owner's manual (2015 FCA US LLC, third edition) requires an SAE 5W-40 full-synthetic engine oil that is API certified and meets the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-12991. There is nothing stated about industry specification ACEA C3.

I have bought a case of Pennzoil Platinum Euro PP 5W-40 full synthetic which ought to do the job. It exceeds the Chrysler spec noted above as well as API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 as well as Ferrari and Maserati specs and many others.

I apologize for coming in late on this issue, but I don't see the need to look around for an ACEA C3 oil at all.

Best Holiday Wishes to All!

How much you are paying?
I am not sure about Hawaii, but Wal Mart on lower 48 carries Castrol 0W40 and Mobil1 0W40 that are going for $26-27 on regular day, and $22 when on sale for 5qt.

 

[phaphaphooey]

Originally Posted By: marco246
I, too, have an Alfa 4C which is going to need an oil change in a couple of months. The owner's manual (2015 FCA US LLC, third edition) requires an SAE 5W-40 full-synthetic engine oil that is API certified and meets the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-12991. There is nothing stated about industry specification ACEA C3.

I have bought a case of Pennzoil Platinum Euro PP 5W-40 full synthetic which ought to do the job. It exceeds the Chrysler spec noted above as well as API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 as well as Ferrari and Maserati specs and many others.

I apologize for coming in late on this issue, but I don't see the need to look around for an ACEA C3 oil at all.

Best Holiday Wishes to All!


I have been away for a bit. Odd I have not come across you as there are not many of us around. I don't recall seeing you on the 4C forum where most owners congregate. I would suggest joining up if you haven't already as there is much to learn about our odd machines if you are interested in doing so.

With that said, if you had actually read this thread in its entirety, or if you had participated on the 4C board and read the parallel thread dedicated to our specific cars, http://4c-forums.com/16-engine-technical/17537-any-oil-nuts-here.html, you would know that the 4C, which has the same engine worldwide, and apparently the same derivative engine as in another recent Alfa as was pointed out earlier in this instant thread, has the Chrysler spec that you cited only in the USA. In the rest of the world, it is a C3 oil spec as this thread has discussed, hence the discussion about C3 oils.

Edit: I will say though that, if the USA only spec that you cite which is satisfied by the Pennzoil oil that you posted which is also an A3 oil, this also answers our speculation in this thread that, for USA cars, perhaps due to our higher sulfur petrol content, an A3 specced oil is what we are after.

 

[TheDan]

Another 4C owner here... The dealership uses Pennzoil Platinum Euro which is ACEA A3/B4-12 and Chrysler MS-12991 (which is specified in the owners manual). Pennzoil is quite proud of this product with it costing twice as much as the similar Mobil 1 product.

I figured if I'm going to spend that much on oil I should spend just a little bit more and get Red Line