Modern car complexity
- Thread starter dishdude
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And most of the wires are just for data communication between different control units. Those small gauge wires definitely aren't for passing high current through.
Those round cylindrical objects on the left side of the picture are the electric seat motors.
Convenience is great until it breaks.
How difficult do people find moving their own seat by pulling a lever or twisting a knob?
How difficult do people find moving their own seat by pulling a lever or twisting a knob?
Nice!
But where's the complexity?
Would it be simpler with a magpie's nest of vacuum hoses, wires, plastic lingages and 200 hour life indication bulbs?
Yes, it is much less error prone and much more exact.
No, you can't do backyard, semi-functional, repairs as you could with the old analog stuff just using a roll of tape and a paper clip.
Yes, you can do lots of repairs yourself with quite cheap digital tools with the help of internet and ,like, ebay.
Had a car where most of the "automatic" stuff ran on vacuum, designed much like a computer but never quite worked. Neither did the french vacuum controlled carb... Prefer digital, no fuss, controls any day.
Same with ECUs, on our old boat the GM 350 and the (beautiful) Edelbrock carb spat out like 230 hp, drank fuel and the carb had to be adjusted for everything all the time.
The newer 5.0 Gi, starts in 0.5 seconds, 250hp, 30% less fuel, idles like a clock, takes all kinds of gas. And, much fewer parts in that engine!!!
But, for those that likes mechanical, analog, visual controls the digital controls are intimidating but they shouldn't be.
But where's the complexity?
Would it be simpler with a magpie's nest of vacuum hoses, wires, plastic lingages and 200 hour life indication bulbs?
Yes, it is much less error prone and much more exact.
No, you can't do backyard, semi-functional, repairs as you could with the old analog stuff just using a roll of tape and a paper clip.
Yes, you can do lots of repairs yourself with quite cheap digital tools with the help of internet and ,like, ebay.
Had a car where most of the "automatic" stuff ran on vacuum, designed much like a computer but never quite worked. Neither did the french vacuum controlled carb... Prefer digital, no fuss, controls any day.
Same with ECUs, on our old boat the GM 350 and the (beautiful) Edelbrock carb spat out like 230 hp, drank fuel and the carb had to be adjusted for everything all the time.
The newer 5.0 Gi, starts in 0.5 seconds, 250hp, 30% less fuel, idles like a clock, takes all kinds of gas. And, much fewer parts in that engine!!!
But, for those that likes mechanical, analog, visual controls the digital controls are intimidating but they shouldn't be.
There's no such thing as a simple easy to work on and maintain automobile, any more.
I have an 84 Honda that I purchased new and it's still my daily driver. I can't imagine that any current automobile is built to last that long while maintaining it on a reasonable budget.
I have an 84 Honda that I purchased new and it's still my daily driver. I can't imagine that any current automobile is built to last that long while maintaining it on a reasonable budget.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
There's no such thing as a simple easy to work on and maintain automobile, any more.
I have an 84 Honda that I purchased new and it's still my daily driver. I can't imagine that any current automobile is built to last that long while maintaining it on a reasonable budget.
Your Honda probably wasn't either.
It was an accident, because they didn't know how NOT to build them that well.
Now, sadly, they probably do.
There's no such thing as a simple easy to work on and maintain automobile, any more.
I have an 84 Honda that I purchased new and it's still my daily driver. I can't imagine that any current automobile is built to last that long while maintaining it on a reasonable budget.
Your Honda probably wasn't either.
It was an accident, because they didn't know how NOT to build them that well.
Now, sadly, they probably do.
I'm guessing the contraption under the passenger's seat is the BCM. I prefer modern too at the end of the day, stuff just is more reliable and lasts longer.
The facts are that modern stuff is far more reliable.
The only thing that confounds the average guy is the diagnostics.
It has always been more difficult to figure out what is wrong than to bolt in new parts...
The only thing that confounds the average guy is the diagnostics.
It has always been more difficult to figure out what is wrong than to bolt in new parts...
I like the stuff and Acura seems reliable thus far in execution with my 2007 mdx Tech. It all works with 150k near flawless.....
I'd hate to cross a river in that Jeep and have water over the floorboards.
I like how GM lays stuff out now (2005ish) with the PCM in the engine compartment. It's obvious that it was wired up with the powertrain ahead of time then dumped under the hood and connected with only a couple harness connectors. Very modular and convenient.
OTOH VIN-keying stuff for "theft proofing" or "odometer protection" chaps my hide. Electronics blow capacitors and I should be able to get an equivalent doohickey without sucking up to a dealer for programming.
I like how GM lays stuff out now (2005ish) with the PCM in the engine compartment. It's obvious that it was wired up with the powertrain ahead of time then dumped under the hood and connected with only a couple harness connectors. Very modular and convenient.
OTOH VIN-keying stuff for "theft proofing" or "odometer protection" chaps my hide. Electronics blow capacitors and I should be able to get an equivalent doohickey without sucking up to a dealer for programming.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
There's no such thing as a simple easy to work on and maintain automobile, any more.
It depends upon your skill level. I have no issues working on and maintaining the vehicles that I own, ranging from a 6 year old Cadillac to a 16 year old Dakota, although I will qualify that by saying that it's rare for any of them to need repair, and maintenance is much easier than anything in the past.
I've heard the same comment bemoaning newer vehicles for the last few decades. There was a time when folks complained about the complexity of vehicles from the 1980's, as well as the cheap, tin can feel of the imports of that era and rat's nest of vacuum hoses and pollution control devices.
I also find it interesting that despite the people who lament over the complexity of newer vehicles, I never see them broken down at the side of the road like older vehicles. Quality, safety and reliability are vastly superior to the cheap, poorly built tin cans of the 1980's, despite the added complexity.
There's no such thing as a simple easy to work on and maintain automobile, any more.
It depends upon your skill level. I have no issues working on and maintaining the vehicles that I own, ranging from a 6 year old Cadillac to a 16 year old Dakota, although I will qualify that by saying that it's rare for any of them to need repair, and maintenance is much easier than anything in the past.
I've heard the same comment bemoaning newer vehicles for the last few decades. There was a time when folks complained about the complexity of vehicles from the 1980's, as well as the cheap, tin can feel of the imports of that era and rat's nest of vacuum hoses and pollution control devices.
I also find it interesting that despite the people who lament over the complexity of newer vehicles, I never see them broken down at the side of the road like older vehicles. Quality, safety and reliability are vastly superior to the cheap, poorly built tin cans of the 1980's, despite the added complexity.
Air bags add complexity. But would you want a car without them?
There are simple, basic cars out there - but people won't buy them.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Air bags add complexity. But would you want a car without them?
I would.`
Originally Posted By: Donald
Air bags add complexity. But would you want a car without them?
I would.`
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
There's no such thing as a simple easy to work on and maintain automobile, any more.
I have an 84 Honda that I purchased new and it's still my daily driver. I can't imagine that any current automobile is built to last that long while maintaining it on a reasonable budget.
I disagree. Lets take my WS6 for example. OBD II (Non CAN bus)with a BCM. Car is heavily modified, heads, Cam, intake full exhaust, intake and various other items. A scanner and HP tunners was all I needed to get it run 11's correctly. Easy peasy. No adjusting timing with a timing light, no rejetting carbs, no running rich fueling down the cylinders, easy to adjust using a lap top. You just have to take the time and learn what each sensor does and how each sensor works with one another. Car idles perfect and you can give the keys to just about anyone and they would have no trouble driving it.
A car with a carb and cam as big as I have in the WS6, would not make a good daily driver.
It is what you are used to.
There's no such thing as a simple easy to work on and maintain automobile, any more.
I have an 84 Honda that I purchased new and it's still my daily driver. I can't imagine that any current automobile is built to last that long while maintaining it on a reasonable budget.
I disagree. Lets take my WS6 for example. OBD II (Non CAN bus)with a BCM. Car is heavily modified, heads, Cam, intake full exhaust, intake and various other items. A scanner and HP tunners was all I needed to get it run 11's correctly. Easy peasy. No adjusting timing with a timing light, no rejetting carbs, no running rich fueling down the cylinders, easy to adjust using a lap top. You just have to take the time and learn what each sensor does and how each sensor works with one another. Car idles perfect and you can give the keys to just about anyone and they would have no trouble driving it.
A car with a carb and cam as big as I have in the WS6, would not make a good daily driver.
It is what you are used to.
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
There's no such thing as a simple easy to work on and maintain automobile, any more.
I have an 84 Honda that I purchased new and it's still my daily driver. I can't imagine that any current automobile is built to last that long while maintaining it on a reasonable budget.
I disagree. Lets take my WS6 for example. OBD II (Non CAN bus)with a BCM. Car is heavily modified, heads, Cam, intake full exhaust, intake and various other items. A scanner and HP tunners was all I needed to get it run 11's correctly. Easy peasy. No adjusting timing with a timing light, no rejetting carbs, no running rich fueling down the cylinders, easy to adjust using a lap top. You just have to take the time and learn what each sensor does and how each sensor works with one another. Car idles perfect and you can give the keys to just about anyone and they would have no trouble driving it.
A car with a carb and cam as big as I have in the WS6, would not make a good daily driver.
It is what you are used to.
Absolutely. And maybe its me and my engineering role at GM but I see today's cars much easier to diagnose and repair. The systems allow for diagnostics quickly in most cases.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
There's no such thing as a simple easy to work on and maintain automobile, any more.
I have an 84 Honda that I purchased new and it's still my daily driver. I can't imagine that any current automobile is built to last that long while maintaining it on a reasonable budget.
I disagree. Lets take my WS6 for example. OBD II (Non CAN bus)with a BCM. Car is heavily modified, heads, Cam, intake full exhaust, intake and various other items. A scanner and HP tunners was all I needed to get it run 11's correctly. Easy peasy. No adjusting timing with a timing light, no rejetting carbs, no running rich fueling down the cylinders, easy to adjust using a lap top. You just have to take the time and learn what each sensor does and how each sensor works with one another. Car idles perfect and you can give the keys to just about anyone and they would have no trouble driving it.
A car with a carb and cam as big as I have in the WS6, would not make a good daily driver.
It is what you are used to.
Absolutely. And maybe its me and my engineering role at GM but I see today's cars much easier to diagnose and repair. The systems allow for diagnostics quickly in most cases.
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