So I converted a car to E85 today

[CBODY67]

I believe there were some Edelbrock/Carter AVS 4bbls several years ago, calibrated for E85. Holley's had their anodized models of late, which I figured would better tolerate the E10 and such (but not sure if all surfaces were anodized, including the internal passages) and I do recall their E85-calibrated carbs.

In the 1990s, when fuel octane boosters were prevalent, there was one additive which stated that if it was used "full strength", then you needed to upsize the jets by 4 sizes. We figured it had a lot of alcohol in it.

There are many upsides to ethanol, but all that is good about ethanol is just as good with butanol, possibly, except possibly the production price . . . although butanol had NONE of the negatives of being in an older fuel system. Be that as it may.

It seems that most of the older vehicles which seem to have the least problems with E10 (other than deterioration of rubber lines, diaphrams, and such) are those that see regular use.

And I also like domestic, USA-sourced, gasoline, too.

CBODY67

 

[kaboom10]

I put together the first carbs for the E10 project at Holley. We had them on slant 6 engines and drove them 5 days a week for the longest. I had used a liquid metal to modify the carbs and it was located in the fuel bowl of the one barrel. You could machine this stuff. By the time the testing was over it had started to crumble. Thatz how corrosive the blend was.

 

[Garak]

That's pretty remarkable. I don't think we've heard a lot of the insider history of how OEMs had to deal with ethanol blends. That's why I asked somewhere here a few years ago what all might be involved in an OEM making an E85 vehicle, and what upgrades would be needed over a "standard" vehicle that is intended for E10.

 

[kaboom10]

Yes the beginning of the learning curve. Took like 8 weeks for the liquid steel to lose itz grip on the chromate dip. If it was exposed to 100% gasoline it never ever lost adhesion. We were looking for all aspects of a carb that would be affected like fuel curve and even wear. When I went E85 with the stock EFI system I changed the injectors to flow more volume but didn't change a thing in the fuel system parts. The stock fuel system seems to have been engineered to go flex fuel if you want. Since when I ran E85 I have changed the fuel system over to a competition system. The gas tank is now a fuel cell with anti sloshing foam inside the cell. The fuel pump can handle 800 horse power while being twin turbocharged. I don't have the answer if it can handle E85 over an extended time. Got way too much money tied up to find it won't take alcohol.

 

[Garak]

I had mentioned here some time ago, too, that one oil company here proudly proclaims no ethanol in their premium, but in the winter, they end up using a splash of methanol as an antifreeze. That doesn't make me happy in the least.

 

[CBODY67]

In many of the older Rochester 4bbls, they used a ball bearing, sealing solder, and a crimp to seal machined passageways in the main body. Nothing really deteriorated the solder, so no leaks for years on the old "normal" gasoline. With E10,though, maybe even the earlier RFG with only about 5% ethanol, the solder deteriorated and a massive fuel leak would happen. Considering where the fuel passage is, it drains the float bowl onto the intake manifold of a V-8 . . . not unlike a leaking accel pump diaphragm on a Holley with the accel pump at the bottom of the front fuel bowl.

In the case of the Rochester, one of our car club members smelled gas on his '58 Buick and got that problem fixed. He also noted they were at a weekend cruise event when a '56 Cadillac pulled into the cruise area. Fire extinguishers were found and deployed very quickly! Saved that guy's car with little damage.

Got to have ethanol-resistant fuel line hose all the way to the fuel tank. Otherwise, the ethanol will "clean" the rubber fuel line of its "oil" and leave just the rubber particles clinging onto the internal webbing reinforcement. Even if a mechanical fuel pump diaphragm is of the ethanol-resistant material, if it's allowed to dry out after being exposed to ethanol gasoline, then it'll become brittle and fail. If the gas has enough absorbed moisture, it can cause vane-type electric fuel pumps to seize, if they have a non-use period that is long enough. Possibly why the newer pumps are turbine pumps?

I've also wondered about failure rates of FI fuel regulators, with an internal rubber diaphragm on vehicles that see little use and have run ethanol gasoline?

CBODY67

 

[Garak]

For your last question, member Trav might have some insight on that one. When ethanol started to make headway here, most of the taxis were still on LPG, so I didn't get to experience any of the teething problems with late carbs and early FI. The old F-150 didn't teach me much, since that model year had a very problematic one year only carb, which was garbage when it was new.

 

[kaboom10]

Just run stainless steel instead of rubber hose. If you want to run hose see if you can find a PTFE lined hose. Yeah not cheap but you don't have to worry about it in the long run.