I almost CAN'T go away from a TOYOTA selection

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: hpb
If I was buying a new car and planned to keep it for 10 years or more, it'd more than likely be a Toyota, with Mazda a very close second.


Mazda makes very good vehicles and most of time gets left out of the discussion...I don't know why they're such an overlooked brand...


They might be as good as Toyota for parts reliability, but they are worse for rust, IMO. Skipping Toyota trucks (which have never done well in sales) it seems late model Mazda's have more rust than other cars. All the imports sucked in the rust department in years past, maybe even today--but Toyota eeks out "a bit more simple to repair" with "a bit less likely to repair" and "a bit less likely to rust out", then toss in typical Toyota resale value--so it rises to the top of my list.

YMMV of course.


I agree about the rust part. My wife's MPV has been a wonderful and super reliable vehicle, but it is starting to rust pretty badly. In fact, rust will probably be the reason we will have to replace it...I've been told Mazda doesn't treat their vehicles for rust prevention as well as some of the other makes do...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
I've seen high mileage Cavaliers in great condition, it's all in how they were taken care of. I've seen trashed Corollas too.


Taking care of a vehicle can't make up for shortfalls in build quality, and the big 3 are notorious for cutting corners with their small segment vehicles...it's this segment where the Asian makes excel...

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: dishdude
I've seen high mileage Cavaliers in great condition, it's all in how they were taken care of. I've seen trashed Corollas too.


Taking care of a vehicle can't make up for shortfalls in build quality, and the big 3 are notorious for cutting corners with their small segment vehicles...it's this segment where the Asian makes excel...


Baloney, the Asian models have just as many cheap plastic parts to break inside. I can't tell you how many Corollas and Camrys I see driving around with broken exterior door handles, or mismatched ones due to replacement.

Throw kids and pets in any of them for 200k, and the interior will be trashed.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: dishdude
I've seen high mileage Cavaliers in great condition, it's all in how they were taken care of. I've seen trashed Corollas too.


Taking care of a vehicle can't make up for shortfalls in build quality, and the big 3 are notorious for cutting corners with their small segment vehicles...it's this segment where the Asian makes excel...


Baloney, the Asian models have just as many cheap plastic parts to break inside. I can't tell you how many Corollas and Camrys I see driving around with broken exterior door handles, or mismatched ones due to replacement.

Throw kids and pets in any of them for 200k, and the interior will be trashed.


Are you actually going to try to convince me that the small segment vehicles from the big 3 are built just as well as the Asian models...that's hilarious!

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: grampi

Are you actually going to try to convince me that the small segment vehicles from the big 3 are built just as well as the Asian models...that's hilarious!


Not at all, I have better things to do with my time. Frankly, I really don't care what you believe.

 

[ARB1977]

My 2002 Tacoma has been a solid truck since buying it new in 2002. Underpowered for sure but the reliability hasn't let me down. Still worth 6-7K.

 

[dareo]

Originally Posted By: ARB1977
My 2002 Tacoma has been a solid truck since buying it new in 2002. Underpowered for sure but the reliability hasn't let me down. Still worth 6-7K.


Unless it rusts away you can drive that thing forever and it will always we worth a lot of money. Any Toyota 3.4L truck/4Runner is ultra reliable. Perfect example of Toyota's glory days. Absolutely perfect trucks unless you get the vehicular cancer.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: grampi

Are you actually going to try to convince me that the small segment vehicles from the big 3 are built just as well as the Asian models...that's hilarious!


Not at all, I have better things to do with my time. Frankly, I really don't care what you believe.


It's not what I believe, it's what is...

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: stchman
Isn't rapid depreciation an indication of quality?


Classic case of cause and effect are not related.

I'll just keep enjoying my Mercedes. I was filling up at a gas station and the guy next to me said nice car. The only thing that's kinda annoying is that it seems like people stare at you and you wonder what the [censored] are they staring at, and then you realize, oh I'm driving a Mercedes. When was the last time that happened when you're driving a Toyota? I don't drive it as a status symbol, I just like all the gadgets it has. The bixenons with active curve illumination is pretty cool at night.

The real reason you get rapid depreciation is that people who buy them new get tired of them after a couple of years and then dump them, they're the ones taking the hit, but they don't care and just buy another new one. Or MB gives such great deals on lease deals that they just jump into another one at the end of the lease. Most people here are afraid of the maintenance costs and stay away. Probably not a good type of car to get if you go to the dealer, but I have a good indy that's pretty cheap and I've done two little DIY projects to fix problems as they came up. Some of the problems are common and are well covered on the forums.

 

[Garak]

Then look at the depreciation on Town Cars years back. Old farts would buy them, die off, and the heirs would have no use for the things. Then, for a few years, taxi fleets started using them, and their value here went through the roof.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Toyota is where GM was in the late 90's resting on their laurels. Back in the 90's they built one heck of a car, my 1993 Camry was way, way better than anything GM made at that price point back in 1993.

Now in 2015 the new Camry is a cheap hollow car compared to the domestic offerings; designed with the attitude screw you were Toyota your going to buy it anyway.

Oh and they break just as much as anything else.


Finally someone else who agrees with me about Toyota. I have never liked anything I have sat in from Toyota in the last few years. Back in the 90s yes. Now, garbage interiors and brutal driving dynamics = no dice.


Yep, hollow cheap, basic pretty much defines a 2015 Toyota. De-contented comes to mind as well.

I was bashed for not liking the Prius I had on here because I guess you just have to like them. But for $24k what a rubbish interior. I mean you could stroll over to Ford, GM, Mazda, Subaru and for $24k get a better little car.

But people will buy them, cause Toyota. Just like in the 90's people would buy [censored] from the big three because America.

The 2016 Tacoma is AFAIK the only truck in the US market that still has drum brakes in the rear. Even cost cutting, bankrupt GM who went back to rear drums in 2005 stopped using them in 2013.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Toyota is where GM was in the late 90's resting on their laurels. Back in the 90's they built one heck of a car, my 1993 Camry was way, way better than anything GM made at that price point back in 1993.

Now in 2015 the new Camry is a cheap hollow car compared to the domestic offerings; designed with the attitude screw you were Toyota your going to buy it anyway.

Oh and they break just as much as anything else.


Finally someone else who agrees with me about Toyota. I have never liked anything I have sat in from Toyota in the last few years. Back in the 90s yes. Now, garbage interiors and brutal driving dynamics = no dice.


Don't know either about Toyota being so much better than GM. I have a lowlife Cavalier I bought new, taught my son to drive on it (5 speed manual), and the only thing to go wrong with it other than maintenance was a fuel tank vent valve (20 bucks for the Delco part on ebay). Can't do much better than that. Just my opinion but I prefer to support American union workers.


Try to getting 300K or more out of the Cavalier and you'll see the difference...


They don't make them anymore, but again since Cavaliers were popular in the 90's that's exactly my point.

I would not keep a car that long, but if I had to a 2016 Chevy Cruze would be my choice over a Toyota product.

A Ford Focus especially in the sporty trims is another solid fun little car, as is the Mazda 3.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: stchman
Isn't rapid depreciation an indication of quality?


Classic case of cause and effect are not related.

I'll just keep enjoying my Mercedes. I was filling up at a gas station and the guy next to me said nice car. The only thing that's kinda annoying is that it seems like people stare at you and you wonder what the [censored] are they staring at, and then you realize, oh I'm driving a Mercedes. When was the last time that happened when you're driving a Toyota? I don't drive it as a status symbol, I just like all the gadgets it has. The bixenons with active curve illumination is pretty cool at night.

The real reason you get rapid depreciation is that people who buy them new get tired of them after a couple of years and then dump them, they're the ones taking the hit, but they don't care and just buy another new one. Or MB gives such great deals on lease deals that they just jump into another one at the end of the lease. Most people here are afraid of the maintenance costs and stay away. Probably not a good type of car to get if you go to the dealer, but I have a good indy that's pretty cheap and I've done two little DIY projects to fix problems as they came up. Some of the problems are common and are well covered on the forums.


Well its a real car. Toyota does make pretty good real cars the big Lexus are nice, just stay away from the cheap badge engineered models.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
They don't make them anymore, but again since Cavaliers were popular in the 90's that's exactly my point.

I would not keep a car that long, but if I had to a 2016 Chevy Cruze would be my choice over a Toyota product.

A Ford Focus especially in the sporty trims is another solid fun little car, as is the Mazda 3.



Most people don't keep their cars for 300K miles. The reason I do is because I roll up that many miles in a fairly short amount of time. I put 3K a month on my car, so 300K comes around fairly soon. I agree with your other statements though...if I were in the market for a new compact, there are nicer models available for the same, or less money...not that I think the new Corolla wouldn't still last a long time, but why not get something nicer?

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Then look at the depreciation on Town Cars years back. Old farts would buy them, die off, and the heirs would have no use for the things. Then, for a few years, taxi fleets started using them, and their value here went through the roof.


A Mercedes is nothing like a town car. Everyone is always happy when I give them a ride. Heated seats are sorta standard on it and I guess it's a feature I never really looked for, but it's also sorta nice now that I have it and several passengers just love to turn it on the first time they get in the car. The rain sensor is kind of a gimmick though, not too much better than intermittent wipers, but you do get surprised once in a while when it kick in and you don't have to do anything.

 

[expat]

I guess I feel a little like the OP. I never considered myself a Toyota 'fan boy' but I have had three of their trucks since the early 80's (the first lasted me over 500k miles, and never let me down). The truck I have now is an 84 that I have had for the last 8 years and has required ZIP other than a taile light bulb in the time I have had it (now at 95K miles)

My wife has a Matrix @ 2009, this car was a replacement for a VW 2.L Golf which we liked, but was proving costly due to electrical issues.
The Matrix is boring as heck, but again has required ZIP other than normal maintenance.

I guess you just get to 'like' them in the long run.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Then look at the depreciation on Town Cars years back. Old farts would buy them, die off, and the heirs would have no use for the things. Then, for a few years, taxi fleets started using them, and their value here went through the roof.


They still do. Heck, most TCs I see have Livery plates.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: expat
I guess I feel a little like the OP. I never considered myself a Toyota 'fan boy' but I have had three of their trucks since the early 80's (the first lasted me over 500k miles, and never let me down). The truck I have now is an 84 that I have had for the last 8 years and has required ZIP other than a taile light bulb in the time I have had it (now at 95K miles)

My wife has a Matrix @ 2009, this car was a replacement for a VW 2.L Golf which we liked, but was proving costly due to electrical issues.
The Matrix is boring as heck, but again has required ZIP other than normal maintenance.

I guess you just get to 'like' them in the long run.


They earned my respect by being so reliable...this aspect overrides the boring part...