2014 Honda Accord Factory Fill, 5034 miles

[86cutlass307]

We purchased this Accord on 12/31/2013 - I had heard & read that Honda FF were Moly heavy and this was. It almost killed me to not dump this after 1k miles but after 5034 I dumped the FF (did not reset Maint minder 50%) and will do a rinse with Valvoline Syn 0w-20 until maintenance minder is at 10% and then we will get our first free Honda dealer oil & filter change. Here is the break in analysis...if you were in doubt about fuel dilution with Direct Injection, this report just shows >5%. I sure hope it gets better, this vehicle spends about 90% of its time on the highway s I hope to see trends come down What do you think? This is my first break in/factory fill lab analysis on a new engine. All others have been done on in service vehicles. Thanks.

 

[Danh]

That is a lot of fuel diuttion, especially given your 90% highway driving profile. Might you have drawn the sample after just a brief warm-up?

The DI/fuel dilution issue is peculiar. Some models seem to have a lot of it (GM and Ford DI V6s, for example) and others almost not at all (e.g. 2012+DI Ford Focus). I haven't this it this bad in a Homda, though and hope the next sample is better.

Wear metals look typical for a factory fill, but the TBN seems low for a 50% oil life remaining reading on the IOLM, though.

Probably worth another UOA in 5,000 miles or so. Good luck with it.

 

[fdcg27]

I'd worry about a UOA like this after 20K or so.
I wouldn't worry at all about a UOA of the FF.
Check out some other four cylinder DI Honda Accord UOAs here.
Those from engines with a few miles on them look as good as any Honda UOA typically does.

 

[147_Grain]

Factory fill might have sheared down to 6.2 @ 100*C, unless Honda is using 0W-16 oil in their engine plant.

I agree with the fuel dilution in the D.I. engine; perhaps the rings are not fully seated too.

 

[gregk24]

Do not worry yet, keep doing 5K OCI's and do a UOA in another 5-10K miles. It should look a lot better.

 

[HKPolice]

Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Factory fill might have sheared down to 6.2 @ 100*C, unless Honda is using 0W-16 oil in their engine plant.

I agree with the fuel dilution in the D.I. engine; perhaps the rings are not fully seated too.


It wasn't shearing that brought the viscosity down, it was mostly due to 5%+ fuel dilution.

 

[Leonardo629]

I have the same car, and Blackstone is recommending me just follow the OLM, even there's a bit of fuel found in my last UOA. I use TGMO 0W20, and wear trending down as I currently have around 32000mi on my '13.

 

[Tucson Five-O]

Leonardo629,

Blackstone does not actually test for fuel dilution, they merely estimate it based on flash point values, how much they dropped from the virgin values.

You can be assured your Honda DI engine fuel dilution is 2%+ (as are the levels of the GM DI & Ford EcoBoost engines).

Use one of the analysis services such as Polaris, etc. one time for an accurate value. Then just match your future flashpoints against theirs and you'll know what your true dilution value is.

But if you're satisfied with your hot viscosity value, wear levels and overall engine performance, then what does it matter?

It's the nature of the beast. Cold weather and short tripping it will ascerbate the problem, but it will always be there to some extent.

Use a low SAPS, low NOACK oil, along with Top Tier gas and/or an occasional shot of Techron cleaner to keep the injector spray pattern in tip-top shape, then drive the heck out if it!!

And the manufacturers know this. In time better injector designs, in conjunction with better positioning and improved air flow and dynamics in the combustion chamber will minimize the effects of DI, but never eliminate it compared to a PI engine.

And again, to everyone talking about DI engines shearing the oil, the fuel is diluting the oil.

Imagine taking a virgin 11.0 cst sample of M1 5W-30. Now add 5% gas to it and mix vigorously. Don't you think the hot viscosity wouldn't be under 8.5 cst? Or even 7.84 cst??

Just my 2¢

Gary

 

[Tucson Five-O]

And 86cutlass307,

I bet if you had sent a sample to Blackstone, they would have reported it had a trace of fuel. Lol

Gary

 

[86cutlass307]

Thanks for the comments all. I was prepared for the usual metal contamination from the initial break in cycle and barring any unforseen mechanical issues all of the trends should start going down. I had 2 each 5 qt. jugs of Synpower 0w-20 to use as what I'll call the first rinse. The other is for my daughter's car. After the 2 free Honda oil changes I have 2 cases of TGMO 0w-20 and a 6 pack of Honda -A01 filters (5 pack now) to use going forward. The sodiium reading will spike up because of the additive pkg Valvoline uses but with only 1 fill it should drop right away. I have always been a fan of getting contamination out early, guess the old fashioned in me is here to stay. I was a little surprised at the heavy Moly in this Factory Fill. I have some LM Mos2 that I put a little in with the oil but nowhere near the concentration in the initial fill. Honda seems to have the 4 cyl technology down pretty good so I hope the fuel dilution corrects itself. I have been using Shell 87 octane from the same station since the first fill trying to get a reading on how the car responds to changes. Summer blend gas is around the corner, maybe that will show an improvement. We'll see.

 

[Leonardo629]

Tucson Five-O, thanks for the info, yeah I read that somewhere on the forum Blackstone merely estimates the fuel dilution level. But like you said, if the viscosity of the oil is within range, and the wear metals are trending down as I accumulate more miles..fuel dilution shouldn't matter.

But my garage does smell like a gas station when I drain the oil in my Honda, I mean all used oil should smell a bit like fuel, but the Honda makes me think I'm draining the fuel tank and not the sump!

 

[bulwnkl]

Holy ****! 5% fuel? Have you, or did you, load the engine highly, to help seat the rings? Or just put it on the highway and drive?

I am NOT impressed with Honda's first DI effort!

 

[86cutlass307]

For about the first 500 miles or so I did the traditional cylinder/ring loading type break in, that's what I call it anyway. Hard acceleration periodically to increase ring loading without excessive rpm, most manufacturers have their own language in the owner's manual for this but with modern machining and low tension rings the break in period is different from Detroit iron block V-8's I grew up with. My wife passes through several small towns on her way to and from work so her time at steady rpm is maybe 8-10 miles. I'm hoping fuel dilution tapers off.

 

[SLCraig]

I am going off memory, but I am a bit baffled at the high fuel as well, from what I remember those new 2.4 DI engines were showing very little fuel on previous analysis?

I wonder if there were changes in the engine from 2013 to 2014?

 

[JAG]

We here are so used to seeing Blackstone's method of calculating fuel percentages (which underestimate them), that we tend to freak out when we see much more accurate values measured with GC (gas chromatography). Always look and see what method is being used.

 

[bulwnkl]

That is well remembered, JAG, so I'll be clear:
I am accustomed to seeing fuel level via GC, and am routinely amused by other labs' fuel numbers. With that in mind: Holy ****! Over 5% fuel!?

86cutlass307, I thought you probably had done some form of break-in other than steady-state highway, but thought it best to ask.

I also hope your fuels levels come down. That fuel is not doing you any favors.

 

[AccordK24]

Is that really a special oil that's different from their standard 0W-20, or is all that moly from the assembly grease used during production?

 

[darryld13]

From http://owners.honda.com/help/faqs
" Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?
Your Honda engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.

American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions."

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: JAG
We here are so used to seeing Blackstone's method of calculating fuel percentages (which underestimate them), that we tend to freak out when we see much more accurate values measured with GC (gas chromatography). Always look and see what method is being used.


Probably this. I would like to see what a Black Stone report would show on a future UOA, tho. )