Originally Posted By: coachditka
Any suggestions?
Don't buy any car that has an interference engine if it uses a timing belt.
Any suggestions?
Don't buy any car that has an interference engine if it uses a timing belt.
Timing belt tensioner bolt broke while driving
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Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Any suggestions?
Don't buy any car that has an interference engine if it uses a timing belt.
I agree. Timing belts suck! Learned my lesson much like the OP did.
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Any suggestions?
Don't buy any car that has an interference engine if it uses a timing belt.
I agree. Timing belts suck! Learned my lesson much like the OP did.
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Well, Subaru performance shop wanted over 6k to rebuild the engine. No thanks.
I contacted the largest engine shop in Houston that has been around for 85 years with a good rep.
They quoted me 3100 for a long block install with a 3/100k warranty on the engine.
That seems to be the best choice and I hope to have my car back soon.
Why are you having the engine re-built? Has the short block been damaged? If you don't know if it had been damaged, it's pretty uncommon for anything to happen to pistons or anything else.
Like Trav and others said- pull the heads, they're easy to do and can tell you about the health of the pistons- not to mention save you boatloads of cash.
Well, Subaru performance shop wanted over 6k to rebuild the engine. No thanks.
I contacted the largest engine shop in Houston that has been around for 85 years with a good rep.
They quoted me 3100 for a long block install with a 3/100k warranty on the engine.
That seems to be the best choice and I hope to have my car back soon.
Why are you having the engine re-built? Has the short block been damaged? If you don't know if it had been damaged, it's pretty uncommon for anything to happen to pistons or anything else.
Like Trav and others said- pull the heads, they're easy to do and can tell you about the health of the pistons- not to mention save you boatloads of cash.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Well, Subaru performance shop wanted over 6k to rebuild the engine. No thanks.
I contacted the largest engine shop in Houston that has been around for 85 years with a good rep.
They quoted me 3100 for a long block install with a 3/100k warranty on the engine.
That seems to be the best choice and I hope to have my car back soon.
Why are you having the engine re-built? Has the short block been damaged? If you don't know if it had been damaged, it's pretty uncommon for anything to happen to pistons or anything else.
Like Trav and others said- pull the heads, they're easy to do and can tell you about the health of the pistons- not to mention save you boatloads of cash.
If the heads were removed, someone could use a bore gauge and see if cylinder taper and out of round are out of spec. If they were out of spec, then it would make sense to rebore the engine and fit oversized pistons, or just replace the short block.
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Well, Subaru performance shop wanted over 6k to rebuild the engine. No thanks.
I contacted the largest engine shop in Houston that has been around for 85 years with a good rep.
They quoted me 3100 for a long block install with a 3/100k warranty on the engine.
That seems to be the best choice and I hope to have my car back soon.
Why are you having the engine re-built? Has the short block been damaged? If you don't know if it had been damaged, it's pretty uncommon for anything to happen to pistons or anything else.
Like Trav and others said- pull the heads, they're easy to do and can tell you about the health of the pistons- not to mention save you boatloads of cash.
If the heads were removed, someone could use a bore gauge and see if cylinder taper and out of round are out of spec. If they were out of spec, then it would make sense to rebore the engine and fit oversized pistons, or just replace the short block.
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Well, Subaru performance shop wanted over 6k to rebuild the engine. No thanks.
I contacted the largest engine shop in Houston that has been around for 85 years with a good rep.
They quoted me 3100 for a long block install with a 3/100k warranty on the engine.
That seems to be the best choice and I hope to have my car back soon.
Why are you having the engine re-built? Has the short block been damaged? If you don't know if it had been damaged, it's pretty uncommon for anything to happen to pistons or anything else.
Like Trav and others said- pull the heads, they're easy to do and can tell you about the health of the pistons- not to mention save you boatloads of cash.
If the heads were removed, someone could use a bore gauge and see if cylinder taper and out of round are out of spec. If they were out of spec, then it would make sense to rebore the engine and fit oversized pistons, or just replace the short block.
That's the issue that I'm dealing with. The labor to do all that is about the same as a long block swap.
It's 10 hours to R&I the engine so that's about 1k right there. Plus all the labor to R&I all the timing components, etc. It's more cost effective to have a reman long block swap at this point.
And Gates said to send them the failed part along with the invoices and they will address the issue. I understand they can't commit without seeing the failed part, but they have been responsive so far.
Here is the estimate from the Subaru shop.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Well, Subaru performance shop wanted over 6k to rebuild the engine. No thanks.
I contacted the largest engine shop in Houston that has been around for 85 years with a good rep.
They quoted me 3100 for a long block install with a 3/100k warranty on the engine.
That seems to be the best choice and I hope to have my car back soon.
Why are you having the engine re-built? Has the short block been damaged? If you don't know if it had been damaged, it's pretty uncommon for anything to happen to pistons or anything else.
Like Trav and others said- pull the heads, they're easy to do and can tell you about the health of the pistons- not to mention save you boatloads of cash.
If the heads were removed, someone could use a bore gauge and see if cylinder taper and out of round are out of spec. If they were out of spec, then it would make sense to rebore the engine and fit oversized pistons, or just replace the short block.
That's the issue that I'm dealing with. The labor to do all that is about the same as a long block swap.
It's 10 hours to R&I the engine so that's about 1k right there. Plus all the labor to R&I all the timing components, etc. It's more cost effective to have a reman long block swap at this point.
And Gates said to send them the failed part along with the invoices and they will address the issue. I understand they can't commit without seeing the failed part, but they have been responsive so far.
Here is the estimate from the Subaru shop.
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Any suggestions?
Don't buy any car that has an interference engine if it uses a timing belt.
You've been very helpful, thanks.
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Any suggestions?
Don't buy any car that has an interference engine if it uses a timing belt.
You've been very helpful, thanks.
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Here is the estimate from the Subaru shop.
Wow, those are high numbers. I hope there are more cost effective alternatives that will do quality work. That includes machine shop.
One thing that was usually beneficial to me is working with a shop that allows me to provide my own parts. (That way you will hopefully wind up with better parts and pay less than some shops would charge for lower quality parts.) For example, Amazon sells a new Gates kit with w/p for 50% less than what was in that quote. Also, using Fel-Pro parts for some gaskets and bolts is a good alternative to OEM if you are looking for good quality and some savings although I realize that you may be inclined to use as many Subaru as possible. Here are some other savings ideas (some expire soon):
-Spend $100 on ACDelco items via Amazon, get $15 off (many timing parts are identical to Gates and OEM)
-Use code BF15 with spwestore.com and get extra 25% off (OEM parts discounter I like to use)
-Save 20% and get $20 gift card on AutoZone online orders of $100
-Use code BFRIDAY20 to get 20% off $100 at jcwhitney.com (I bought Gates kit for my '02 Forester there)
-Check out the BITOG Product Rebates, Sales and Promotions topics for other ideas
Last but not least, check to see if any cash back web sites like Ebates, Topcashback, Befrugal, etc can offer something when you shop online. That 5% cash back is not a deal-breaker but can help a bit when the bill is several hundred dollars.
Hope this helps a little.
Here is the estimate from the Subaru shop.
Wow, those are high numbers. I hope there are more cost effective alternatives that will do quality work. That includes machine shop.
One thing that was usually beneficial to me is working with a shop that allows me to provide my own parts. (That way you will hopefully wind up with better parts and pay less than some shops would charge for lower quality parts.) For example, Amazon sells a new Gates kit with w/p for 50% less than what was in that quote. Also, using Fel-Pro parts for some gaskets and bolts is a good alternative to OEM if you are looking for good quality and some savings although I realize that you may be inclined to use as many Subaru as possible. Here are some other savings ideas (some expire soon):
-Spend $100 on ACDelco items via Amazon, get $15 off (many timing parts are identical to Gates and OEM)
-Use code BF15 with spwestore.com and get extra 25% off (OEM parts discounter I like to use)
-Save 20% and get $20 gift card on AutoZone online orders of $100
-Use code BFRIDAY20 to get 20% off $100 at jcwhitney.com (I bought Gates kit for my '02 Forester there)
-Check out the BITOG Product Rebates, Sales and Promotions topics for other ideas
Last but not least, check to see if any cash back web sites like Ebates, Topcashback, Befrugal, etc can offer something when you shop online. That 5% cash back is not a deal-breaker but can help a bit when the bill is several hundred dollars.
Hope this helps a little.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: anl0109
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Here is the estimate from the Subaru shop.
Wow, those are high numbers. I hope there are more cost effective alternatives that will do quality work. That includes machine shop.
One thing that was usually beneficial to me is working with a shop that allows me to provide my own parts. (That way you will hopefully wind up with better parts and pay less than some shops would charge for lower quality parts.) For example, Amazon sells a new Gates kit with w/p for 50% less than what was in that quote. Also, using Fel-Pro parts for some gaskets and bolts is a good alternative to OEM if you are looking for good quality and some savings although I realize that you may be inclined to use as many Subaru as possible. Here are some other savings ideas (some expire soon):
-Spend $100 on ACDelco items via Amazon, get $15 off (many timing parts are identical to Gates and OEM)
-Use code BF15 with spwestore.com and get extra 25% off (OEM parts discounter I like to use)
-Save 20% and get $20 gift card on AutoZone online orders of $100
-Use code BFRIDAY20 to get 20% off $100 at jcwhitney.com (I bought Gates kit for my '02 Forester there)
-Check out the BITOG Product Rebates, Sales and Promotions topics for other ideas
Last but not least, check to see if any cash back web sites like Ebates, Topcashback, Befrugal, etc can offer something when you shop online. That 5% cash back is not a deal-breaker but can help a bit when the bill is several hundred dollars.
Hope this helps a little.
I don't see how any shop will warranty the rebuild using parts sourced from so many vendors. If he has an issue with the rebuild...good luck with a warranty.
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Here is the estimate from the Subaru shop.
Wow, those are high numbers. I hope there are more cost effective alternatives that will do quality work. That includes machine shop.
One thing that was usually beneficial to me is working with a shop that allows me to provide my own parts. (That way you will hopefully wind up with better parts and pay less than some shops would charge for lower quality parts.) For example, Amazon sells a new Gates kit with w/p for 50% less than what was in that quote. Also, using Fel-Pro parts for some gaskets and bolts is a good alternative to OEM if you are looking for good quality and some savings although I realize that you may be inclined to use as many Subaru as possible. Here are some other savings ideas (some expire soon):
-Spend $100 on ACDelco items via Amazon, get $15 off (many timing parts are identical to Gates and OEM)
-Use code BF15 with spwestore.com and get extra 25% off (OEM parts discounter I like to use)
-Save 20% and get $20 gift card on AutoZone online orders of $100
-Use code BFRIDAY20 to get 20% off $100 at jcwhitney.com (I bought Gates kit for my '02 Forester there)
-Check out the BITOG Product Rebates, Sales and Promotions topics for other ideas
Last but not least, check to see if any cash back web sites like Ebates, Topcashback, Befrugal, etc can offer something when you shop online. That 5% cash back is not a deal-breaker but can help a bit when the bill is several hundred dollars.
Hope this helps a little.
I don't see how any shop will warranty the rebuild using parts sourced from so many vendors. If he has an issue with the rebuild...good luck with a warranty.
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: anl0109
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Here is the estimate from the Subaru shop.
Wow, those are high numbers. I hope there are more cost effective alternatives that will do quality work. That includes machine shop.
One thing that was usually beneficial to me is working with a shop that allows me to provide my own parts. (That way you will hopefully wind up with better parts and pay less than some shops would charge for lower quality parts.) For example, Amazon sells a new Gates kit with w/p for 50% less than what was in that quote. Also, using Fel-Pro parts for some gaskets and bolts is a good alternative to OEM if you are looking for good quality and some savings although I realize that you may be inclined to use as many Subaru as possible. Here are some other savings ideas (some expire soon):
-Spend $100 on ACDelco items via Amazon, get $15 off (many timing parts are identical to Gates and OEM)
-Use code BF15 with spwestore.com and get extra 25% off (OEM parts discounter I like to use)
-Save 20% and get $20 gift card on AutoZone online orders of $100
-Use code BFRIDAY20 to get 20% off $100 at jcwhitney.com (I bought Gates kit for my '02 Forester there)
-Check out the BITOG Product Rebates, Sales and Promotions topics for other ideas
Last but not least, check to see if any cash back web sites like Ebates, Topcashback, Befrugal, etc can offer something when you shop online. That 5% cash back is not a deal-breaker but can help a bit when the bill is several hundred dollars.
Hope this helps a little.
I don't see how any shop will warranty the rebuild using parts sourced from so many vendors. If he has an issue with the rebuild...good luck with a warranty.
I have learned my lesson letting a shop install parts I source. That's why I'm in this situation. I supplied the Gates timing kit I got from Amazon to the shop and that's what broke. If the shop had supplied the parts, I would have no issues, the shop would be 100% on the hook for the failure.
Originally Posted By: anl0109
Originally Posted By: coachditka
Here is the estimate from the Subaru shop.
Wow, those are high numbers. I hope there are more cost effective alternatives that will do quality work. That includes machine shop.
One thing that was usually beneficial to me is working with a shop that allows me to provide my own parts. (That way you will hopefully wind up with better parts and pay less than some shops would charge for lower quality parts.) For example, Amazon sells a new Gates kit with w/p for 50% less than what was in that quote. Also, using Fel-Pro parts for some gaskets and bolts is a good alternative to OEM if you are looking for good quality and some savings although I realize that you may be inclined to use as many Subaru as possible. Here are some other savings ideas (some expire soon):
-Spend $100 on ACDelco items via Amazon, get $15 off (many timing parts are identical to Gates and OEM)
-Use code BF15 with spwestore.com and get extra 25% off (OEM parts discounter I like to use)
-Save 20% and get $20 gift card on AutoZone online orders of $100
-Use code BFRIDAY20 to get 20% off $100 at jcwhitney.com (I bought Gates kit for my '02 Forester there)
-Check out the BITOG Product Rebates, Sales and Promotions topics for other ideas
Last but not least, check to see if any cash back web sites like Ebates, Topcashback, Befrugal, etc can offer something when you shop online. That 5% cash back is not a deal-breaker but can help a bit when the bill is several hundred dollars.
Hope this helps a little.
I don't see how any shop will warranty the rebuild using parts sourced from so many vendors. If he has an issue with the rebuild...good luck with a warranty.
I have learned my lesson letting a shop install parts I source. That's why I'm in this situation. I supplied the Gates timing kit I got from Amazon to the shop and that's what broke. If the shop had supplied the parts, I would have no issues, the shop would be 100% on the hook for the failure.
I don't get this, they are using a short block and machining your heads? So they are removing the heads from your short block anyway are they even sure yours is toast?
To me this doesn't small right.
To me this doesn't small right.
Originally Posted By: coachditka
I have learned my lesson letting a shop install parts I source. That's why I'm in this situation. I supplied the Gates timing kit I got from Amazon to the shop and that's what broke. If the shop had supplied the parts, I would have no issues, the shop would be 100% on the hook for the failure.
Never mind then.
I have learned my lesson letting a shop install parts I source. That's why I'm in this situation. I supplied the Gates timing kit I got from Amazon to the shop and that's what broke. If the shop had supplied the parts, I would have no issues, the shop would be 100% on the hook for the failure.
Never mind then.
Originally Posted By: Trav
I don't get this, they are using a short block and machining your heads? So they are removing the heads from your short block anyway are they even sure yours is toast?
To me this doesn't small right.
I agree. That is why I'm sending the car to the engine/machine shop. They plan on doing a LB swap, but can easily see if that is not necessary.
Worst case, 3100 LB swap with warranty.
Best case, bent valves and some minor machine work on the head, cost unknown, but less than LB swap.
I don't get this, they are using a short block and machining your heads? So they are removing the heads from your short block anyway are they even sure yours is toast?
To me this doesn't small right.
I agree. That is why I'm sending the car to the engine/machine shop. They plan on doing a LB swap, but can easily see if that is not necessary.
Worst case, 3100 LB swap with warranty.
Best case, bent valves and some minor machine work on the head, cost unknown, but less than LB swap.
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I'm not a metallurgist but if the bolt broke it could have been over-torqued (airgun?) or faulty bolt.
Did not read all posts if this has already been discussed.
Did not read all posts if this has already been discussed.
Originally Posted By: cjcride
I'm not a metallurgist but if the bolt broke it could have been over-torqued (airgun?) or faulty bolt.
Did not read all posts if this has already been discussed.
Installer swears he used the 28.8 on the bolt as specified in the fsm.
Car arrived at the machine shop today, they will have it torn down tomorrow and we will know more.
I'm not a metallurgist but if the bolt broke it could have been over-torqued (airgun?) or faulty bolt.
Did not read all posts if this has already been discussed.
Installer swears he used the 28.8 on the bolt as specified in the fsm.
Car arrived at the machine shop today, they will have it torn down tomorrow and we will know more.
Well, I got the engine rebuilt and it's running well. Like any BITOG'er, I'm OCD about the proper break in procedure. The shop ran RP break in oil for 3 hours, then drained and filled with Pennzoil YB and some break in additive. They said to change the oil in 500 miles and not to be hard on it for 1000 miles.
The big issue is the original shop has lost the broken bolt, so I can't sent anything to Gates. I sent that shop a demand letter today because they were supposed to retain the failed part for my Gates warranty claim and they did not, so their negligence has resulted in my failure to file a Gates claim. I told the shop to file a claim with their insurance, warranty company, or pay me the $4500 that I'm out.
Ugh, ugh, and ugh.
The big issue is the original shop has lost the broken bolt, so I can't sent anything to Gates. I sent that shop a demand letter today because they were supposed to retain the failed part for my Gates warranty claim and they did not, so their negligence has resulted in my failure to file a Gates claim. I told the shop to file a claim with their insurance, warranty company, or pay me the $4500 that I'm out.
Ugh, ugh, and ugh.
If it's the same shop that installed the belt kit originally, maybe they just got rid of the evidence that would implicate them for overtorquing the bolt?
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
If it's the same shop that installed the belt kit originally, maybe they just got rid of the evidence that would implicate them for overtorquing the bolt?
That would be my guess, or they just don't want to get involved in the claim, fearing Gates would try to place the blame on them, which they might.
If it's the same shop that installed the belt kit originally, maybe they just got rid of the evidence that would implicate them for overtorquing the bolt?
That would be my guess, or they just don't want to get involved in the claim, fearing Gates would try to place the blame on them, which they might.
Originally Posted By: dlayman
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
If it's the same shop that installed the belt kit originally, maybe they just got rid of the evidence that would implicate them for overtorquing the bolt?
That would be my guess, or they just don't want to get involved in the claim, fearing Gates would try to place the blame on them, which they might.
That is my thought also. If they made a mistake, just own up to it and make it right.
I'm going to collect from someone, but now I'm focused on the shop because they are the ones who lost my evidence to go after Gates.
This is like a bad dream.
I'm contacting AAA since this is a AAA shop and we are members, I am contacting Repair Pal since this is one of their shops. If they don't pay up, I will even take them to small claims court and get my money that way. In Texas, it's super easy to go to small claims court.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
If it's the same shop that installed the belt kit originally, maybe they just got rid of the evidence that would implicate them for overtorquing the bolt?
That would be my guess, or they just don't want to get involved in the claim, fearing Gates would try to place the blame on them, which they might.
That is my thought also. If they made a mistake, just own up to it and make it right.
I'm going to collect from someone, but now I'm focused on the shop because they are the ones who lost my evidence to go after Gates.
This is like a bad dream.
I'm contacting AAA since this is a AAA shop and we are members, I am contacting Repair Pal since this is one of their shops. If they don't pay up, I will even take them to small claims court and get my money that way. In Texas, it's super easy to go to small claims court.
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